RE: Which is best unaccredited institution?

I believe that Bill is correct. I just wanted to emphasize though what Bill mentioned. He has shown an amazing (okay my word not Bill's) ability to identify unaccredited schools that appear to be likely to eventually get accreditation. Which means that they wouldn't really very well fit into that category that Dr. Bear called "unlikely ever to get recognized accreditation".

 

Hi Dennis, first, Rich never said he considered them diploma mills. I believe that I use a definition for diploma mill that is easier met than Rich and I don't consider them all diploma mills by a long shot. Second, I want to point out that my guess is that most of those schools that Dennis referenced are vocational training schools and are totally irrelevant to the discussion.

I have said many times that there is a significant difference between DETC and RA. The utility is significantly different for the degrees (but apparently the gap is diminishing). There are DETC schools that I would guess could never achieve regional accreditation without significant modification to their programs.

 

Bob Jones University has some DL available and is very well respected. Seems to in most cases be treated as if it were accredited. Graduates perform very well (eg teacher exams, music field) and get into very good graduate schools.

However, even BJU has limitations. Where I work will not consider any unaccredited degree. This is one of the interesting aspects of our system. BJU may be miles and miles ahead academically of say University of Phoenix (etc) but because it does not have the imprimatur from an accrediting agency (Regional or National) it has some limited utility.

John Bear I believe once mentioned in one of his books that the President of the U of Wisconsin (???) said he suspected that even without accreditation, his school would be taken seriously from an academic standpoint. Yet, schools go through this process because it gives some minimum standard assessment and is the currency of the academic realm.


North

 

> I've taken a full-time position with an RA university as a
> department head. (Yes, as a direct result of my Union Ph.D.)

Congratulations!

> I'm certainly not the only [one] saying there's a significant
> difference between RA and DETC. Many regionally accredited
> schools make this distinction. Admissions officers do, too. So
> do employers. Even DETC acknowledges it.

What you say is true, about difference in acceptance. But when Dennis wrote "I have never seen anyone else say that there is a significant difference in accreditation between R/A and DETC. With the recent high rejection rates of applicants, I suspect DETC may be a little tougher", he meant difference in required quality. There are possible reasons for lack of acceptance other than poor quality: RA may be more accepted because it's the best-known brand name, or because it's an exlusive club.

Congratulations again.

 

I haven't seen any studies on the differences in quality between DETC-accredited schools and regionally accredited schools. Could there be no difference? Possibly, but the American Council on Education (ACE) seems to think otherwise.

As we know, ACE provides credit recommendations for a variety of non-collegiate learning. Military training, corporate training, non-collegiate tertiary school training, etc. They also evaluate courses from DETC-accredited schools. These evaluations--courses, not degree programs--improve the likelihood the credits will be accepted by RA schools. But certainly there must be courses the ACE rejects--by definition. Otherwise, why bother? When ACE declines to recommend credit for a course that leads to a degree from a DETC-accredited school, it is saying the course is not equivalent to one found at a regionally accredited school; that it is not worthy of granting credit.

So, ACE makes distinctions, some of which must say that some DETC-accredited schools offer courses of lower quality than found at RA schools. To confirm this, one would have to know of a situation where a school's courses have been rejected by ACE.

 

Yeh?

 

Congratulations, Rich!

Does this school offer DL programs?

 

Congrats Rich! It is nice to see the hard work pay off for you. I hope the job is all you envision it to be!

 

Yes, it does.

 

Would very much like to know the name of the school!

 

Sorry, no. And with that, I'll refrain from commenting further. (The reasons should be obvious to regular readers or those who search the threads.)

Rich

 

That's why I didn't ask.

 

What is/are the reason/s for not naming the school. I am sorry if it sound like stupid question. Is it due to employment law that one should not mention the employers name untill all contracts are finalized?

 

No, it's because there are people out there with vendettas against Rich Douglas, who, as soon as they know the name of the school, will send e-mail to "every faculty member and administrator" there, defaming him. Here's a post where somebody threatened to do that:
http://groups.google.com/groups?selm=550587ca.0307241542.e5d2c87%40posting.google.com

And that person had already done it, a few years before, under another name:
http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=64087#post64087

 

The owner(s) of a degree mill tried to make trouble for Rich at some of his previous employers.

They failed miserably, of course, but I can understand not wanting the hassle.

 

Thanks Mark and Bruce.

I guess the truth hurts; so they (dip Mill owners) wants to sue the Butts of Mr. Rich Douglas.

 

Of course, some of the attackers are just trolls (crabs, hams, whatever you want to call them.)

 

Every day there are millions of people who smoke cigarettes. The fact that there are so many does not make this a smart, healthy thing to do. The logic you're using in the above statement is faulty.
Jack

 

Perhaps. But I do know for sure that "50,000,000 Elvis Fans Can't Be Wrong!"

 

Congratulations on your appointment in pectore, Rich.