Questions for current Army personnel on the board

Re: Re: Questions for current Army personnel on the board

I happened to see the test scores of the cadre who'd been our drill instructors in Basic Training (Army). Those scores would have been respectable in the academic departments of most colleges. The military works in mysterious ways.

The young punk fella we're working over here will not likely be helped by a military stint if he's coerced in to joining. And the potential for getting into trouble can multiply, as compared to most civilian settings, with a posting overseas. Lots of funny stuff goes on in military zones.

 

Re: Re: GED and the military

"Chanute" AFB, not "Rantoul." It was located in the Village of Rantoul, however.

 

Re: Re: Questions for current Army personnel on the board

This stereotypical (and wrong) comment deflates your whole argument, which is based on your opinion. I'm not saying I agree or disagree--I know for a fact that the military isn't a reform school, and should not be considered as such in this sitaution. But to refer to a DI (or Air Force MTI) like that shows an utter ignorance of military training.

I did considerable work with the Air Force Military Training Instructors School at Lackland when I was stationed there. As a training officer myself, I was continually impressed by the quality of candidates entering the school--as well as the graduates "hitting the streets." They do an amazing and difficult job. Yes, they can be harsh at times, but that's not their main tool. They're instructors, and they instruct an incredibly diverse population, imbuing a common core of values, knowledge, and skills in a very brief period of time.

As a group, they're a smart, capapble bunch. Using unbased stereotypes like yours weakens, not strengthens, your argument.

Oh, and I'm not just an observer. I graduated from both basic training and officer training school, making me a two-time customer. Additionally, I worked alongside them for 4 years as a training officer at Lackland, then worked with them in AFROTC field training for two summers when I was at San Diego State.) Do you, Gregg, have even a remotely similar experience? And if not, do you have data to back up your "40 points lower" comment? Finally, where do you think DI's and MTI's come from? They're the very same people who were at one time recruits! Did they somehow lose those precious 40 points along the way?

No, I don't think the military is a good option for this person, but not because it's not good enough for him. I think it is a bad option because I doubt he's good enough for the military, which will spit him out like a bad seed. (This based only on what I've read here, and really isn't a conclusion--none of us has enough observation to draw one, but you get my drift.)

 

Thank you for all of the insightful responses. Personally, would I join the Army right now? Not while GW is CIC. But that is topic for another day and another thread.

My Nephew went down to the recruiters the other day and took his ASVAB. My sister said that he scored very well and has been presented with several career options. (even a college plan??? - humm - ). I am going to let him decide what is best - of course giving him my opinions and life experiences in the service. I was lucky, during my tenure we were at relative peace. With the exception of the 260 Marines killed in Lebanon, very little went on. My dear Nephew has to decided whether or not he can handle possible combat. No matter what MOS you have, combat is always a possiblity. I just hope he is smart enough and has enough common sense to know not to follow illegal orders (such as what happened at Abu Ghraib).

 

Re: Re: Re: Questions for current Army personnel on the board

Drill sergeants are not stupid people. Some of them may not be the most polished individuals you'll ever meet, but they are not stupid.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions for current Army personnel on the board

I wondered at the high test scores I saw until I thought of who gets first crack at you in the Army.

I should mention that I'm not speaking defensively as I hated my time in the Army. Just tellin' it like it was.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Questions for current Army personnel on the board

I can't say I hated it, can't say I enjoyed it. I'm glad I did it, though.

 

Re: Re: Re: Questions for current Army personnel on the board

Oy. If the carefulness (or lack thereof) with which my words here have been read is any indication, then perhaps said words were an understatement.

Just as those here who are jumping to the defense of the military, generally (and offering it up as a cure all and fix all for any malcontent that society could throw at it), are missing my point that we're talking about a particular kid in a particular situation and, given that, the military is not a good option for him; this (and other similar) criticism(s) sucks the context right out of what I actually wrote (and meant) and presumes that I think drill instructors are stupid. The kid's IQ is 150. Forty points below that is still 110... which isn't stupid. I was making a comment about how smart the kid is, not how stupid DI's are!

(Sheesh!)

 

Thanks, Gregg. I'm just sticking up for a bunch of people (military trainers) that I know, first-hand, to be a very sharp bunch.

As an aside, I think IQ is a bunch of hooey. I'm not convinced we can measure "intelligence quotient." We can, however measure what people know. The ASVAB does a pretty good job of that, even though it is designed to measure "aptitude." Sigh.....

 

Same

DI's don't supervise the exams. When they took the tests , they were recruits, w/o any influence on scores. The concept of Code eludes too many, as does responsibility. The "Honor Code" is natural to several of us.

The only time my property was stolen, in the service, was by natives. If my camp was secure, I could leave any valuables, in the open, without concern. And if I lost something, later found, it was returned. Nothing missing.

How many posters play sports, jog, lift ? Do you lock your lockers?
And, this is at your private club?

Civilians would be surprised at the vast number of enlisted troops, with REAL graduate degrees, happy with the status quo.
Money is not their motivation, duty, honor, and accomplishment are. Ask a cop or firefighter about their stock portfolio.

I chuckle at my attorney buddy. We'll go to the yacht club, to play tennis, and he uses a titanium lock. Says the place is full of laywers, judges, doctors, and others he does not trust. With a straight face.

And to think, soldiers will die to protect the ass that doubts their honesty or intelligence. This also pertains to LE and Fire.

For an alleged forum of open minded, intelligent folks, this has opened my eyes to a couple posters. They no longer exist.

The next time you are robbed, or stuck in a burning car/house, whip out your credentials.

As to the nephew, he will not be able to obtain a clearance for very many jobs. I suggest he take a longer look at schools, and the ability to obtain knowledge through osmosis, like the forgotten posters. Or sell him to the jypsies.


My GT (ASVAB) score shocked me (and everyone else). Was offered the world, but chose SF. Never regretted a moment, and thank those ignorant, dishonest, dregs, for turning a wise-ass kid into someone, that has made a difference. Even allowing for typos.

 

Re: Re: Re: GED and the military

Of course; I stand corrected. Neither Octave Chanute nor the legion of airmen who trained there would be very happy with my error.

I wonder if anyone else had my experience. I liked, appreciated and respected my TI. He was a kind, cheerful man who taught by encouragement not intimidation. He was much more pleasant than our sister flight’s TI. He went out of his way to communicate that although we were guardsmen, in his eyes we were equal to regulars. Thirty-five years later I still lament an event that seemed to disappoint and upset him. The Vietnam War was raging and during mail call he noticed and commented on the peace symbol my girlfriend drew on the envelope. I suppose he could have punished me but he didn’t; his chagrin was far worse.

 

Alot of 'em with IQs a helluva lot higher than 110, by the way, from what I've observed.

I think I agree with this... though I'm not completely dismissive of IQ testing, generally. I'm just not sure it measures what most people think it measures. Of course, tell that to Mensa.

Understood.

So... like... as I asked in another thread: There must be a full moon or somethin', right?

 

Two concordances in one thread.

It must take wiii (whatever is innate intelligence) to get a high IQ score but a low score needn't prove a lack of wiii.

I'm too lazy to do the research but, IIRC, it's always been said that IQ measures probable future academic success and not wiii. But people usually insist upon wiii.

Or maybe I don't remember correctly.

 

Naw. I'm just tired of taking potshots from lightweights who don't know what they're talking about. I'm fighting back instead. I realize that by posting more than anyone else, I'm going to be subject to a greater number of these, but greater proportions? Intellectual gnats who can't back up what they post resort to that stuff, and the poster in question is certainly one of those.

However, you easily saw that my comment about your being ignorant about military training wasn't the same as calling you ignorant, and your explanation (that you were talking up the kid, not talking down the DI) was accepted quite simply. We can disagree (even violently) without being personally insulting. Others cannot seem to get that.

Finally, I will say that I have a much smaller impact on this board than the number of my posts would indicate. I'm talkative in this environment, but I hardly hold sway. Bush04 demonstrates significant insecurities when he makes such comments.

 

Misworded

In the military it isn't the intelligence quotient that matters. What counts is the competence quotient.

In the military, I met just a few people with higher scores than mine and many of them were hopeless eggheads. However, I knew many people of lesser scores that were as good or better than me.

You learn quick that the ability to answer a lot of Jeopardy questions isn't all that great without a little common sense....

 

An update

The punk boy store very high on his ASVABS and passed his piss test and is doing a background now. He is going to be making propaganda films -- not sure what exactly that MOS entails.(he is quite the amateur screenwriter and has made a few films - probably porno if I know this kid right! -- lol).

He is leaving for South Carolina in September. Good for the kid - hopefully he gets his shit together and doesn't get shot while doing it.

 

Re: Misworded

That is true in almost every job. IQ does not equal ability, competence, or common sense for that matter. This is especially true for people in leadership. They are almost never the smartest, most articulate, or even the strongest. They are usually the ones who are able to pick out others that are able to carry out their orders. Command presence is everything.

 

Same

Mr. Engineer,

The kid's scores were probably equivalent to a fern. If his movies don't succeed, he can play camoflage. He may surprise folks, and produce films on tooth brushing and prophylactic application techniques. Hopefully, at different times. Wouldn't want him to choke on a Trojan and brush his johnson with Colgate.

His family would be proud of the Purple Heart. Just don't acknowledge he got it from gagging on a rubber, in S. Carolina.

Purple Heart recipients chill. It was a joke. Like paper cuts and rice attacts.


DTechBA,

Mensa requires a GT score of at least 132. 110 would be sufficient for OCS and is an alright score, but not great. It was not enough for SF. That is why all SF'ers automatically qualified for OCS. I believe the standards have been lowered recently. Bad move. The ability to make decisions in nanoseconds, without supervision, will suffer. As will the troops.

My daily reports, from the front, are in direct opposition to news stories. I do not doubt the honesty of the soldiers, but I do doubt the people attempting to MAKE news. How many of you are amazed at the exaggeration, and or manipulation, of local news? Imagine the exponential growth, without constraints.

As to I.Q., I believe it equates to the ability of thinking in abstract terms. Outside the box. But who cares what I think? I'm just testing my new/used computer. Hoping to enlighten myself. So far, no luck. Need an elitist egocentric to expose himself...er... show my illogical logic.
Best to all, and to all a good day.

P.S. If you were never in the service, you have no opinion. Just as I have no opinion concerning computer technology. archicture, selfaggrandizement, or fishing.

 

Gee Clay - care to share some of that stuff you have been smoking this afternoon?

 

Same

Mr. Engineer,
I stopped by Sam's Club and bought a case of Nilla Wafers. Immediately ate a box, and proceeded to make a fool of myself, again. Some should try it. Appears to work quite well. Don't ya think? He who cannot laugh at himself, has a false opinion of his convictions, and should bypass Sam's Club (Confuseus-circa 1 min. ago).
Ignorant, contented, and sick of Nilla Wafers. They won't stay lit.
Good luck with the kid,
Clay