PhD/DBA in business or organizational behavior that meets every requirement?

Congratulations. It is too bad that all that work will result in a degree not recognized by any entity on the planet. I hope it works out for you anyway.

 

Probably because CCU represents a stable, DL, unaccredited school. This is as opposed to Rushmore, which has "moved" several times and has never, ever, been subject to outside scrutiny.

 

Jason

I guess I did a context switch you couldn't follow. OK, let me try again:

The discussion was about Rushmore, its several moves, and its near paranoia over accreditation.

Now, let's consider another approved but not accredited school, CCU. CCU has been in Santa Ana for a long time. CCU is very upfront about its status. When I received material from them in the past, they even stated if you neded special licensure, or a regionally accredited degree, then CCU may not be the best choice. This is unlike many unaccredited schools that take an opposite

Did that help?

I just checked the CCU site, and there is no longer mention of accreditation. However, they have also dropped their doctoral programs. A while back I cought a rumor the school was looking at DETC accreditation, which could explain dropping the doctoral programs. Regardless of the reason for dropping the doctoral programs, I'll bet if you ask about accreditation they'll be as upfront about it as they were before.

 

blahetka,

I guess you did.........

My apologies.

 

Quotation:

What Faculty Say About Rushmore
We asked our faculty to write a letter that focused on these topics:

Their profile: education credentials, industry, publications, professional, and academic experience.
Why they decided to join the faculty. In other words what is about the Rushmore approach to education that interested and excited them and caused them to accept our invitation to join the faculty.
How they work with their students, the work you are getting from them, and the results the students are getting and anything else they would like to say about our students.
Their areas of teaching and research interest.
How Rushmore compares to other graduate schools of business.
Lee Hargrave, MBA
My business career has always revolved around technology businesses, primarily computers and communications. It began some 45 years ago in 1956 as a summer intern at Lockheed, where I programmed the IBM computer (a mere ten years after the computer was invented).

Over the ensuing year, I was a student engineer at Remington Rand Univac, designing computer circuitry for the Univac LARC, the world's first solid-state computer. From 1957 to 1960, I served as an officer in the U.S. Navy assigned to the National Security Agency, where I directed the development of communications systems. From 1960 to 1962, I was a project director on electronic countermeasures systems at Sanders Associates (now Lockheed Sanders). Following that, I was President of a small engineering design company.

In 1965, I began a 14-year career with the General Electric Company, spending the first ten years with the Aerospace Group with such responsibilities as manager of the Nimbus and Voyager spacecraft programs, manager of the German-American Helios spacecraft program (based in Germany), and Manager of Strategic Planning for the Aerospace Group. In 1975, I moved to Brussels and spent four years there directing strategic planning for GE's businesses in Europe and Middle East.

Over the period 1979-1984, I was Vice President, Corporate Development for Storage Technology Corporation, where I played a part in quadrupling the company's revenues over this period. My accomplishments included pioneering the company's strategic business planning, coordinating a $90 million acquisition, structuring two innovative R&D partnerships and divesting two operations.

From 1984 to 1986, I was Chief Operating Officer of Computer Automation, a $60 million manufacturer of minicomputers and automatic test equipment with facilities in the United States and Europe. At Computer Automation, I orchestrated the restructuring of the company, leading to divesting one operation and merging the remaining operations to yield a smaller but more efficient company.

In 1986, I took over a loss-ridden manufacturer of computer-based access control systems (Rusco Electronic Systems), turned a $5.8 million loss to profitability in 18 months, acquired a Florida company (CASI), merged the two companies, relocated all operations to Florida, and developed a network of domestic and international dealers. When the rebuilding subsided, I was President and CEO of CASI-RUSCO, a $25 million company with the second-largest share of the access control market.

In 1991, I formed The Hargrave Consultancy to assist technology companies to remake themselves via the insightful application of strategic business planning. My clients have included Broadway & Seymour, Imonics, Voice Strategies, AVL Information Systems, Xbridge Software, Enron Broadband Systems and Brandsley A/S.

My Academic Background

I have earned four degrees, as follows:

· BA, Mathematics University of Pennsylvania 1956
· BS, Electrical Engineering, with honors University of Pennsylvania 1957
· MS, Electrical Engineering, with honors University of Maryland 1960
· MBA, Business Administration Drexel University 1974

I am a member of Phi Kappa Phi, Tau Beta Pi (Engineering), Sigma Tau (Engineering), Eta Kappa Nu (Electrical Engineering), Pi Mu Epsilon (Mathematics) and Mensa and am a Registered Professional Engineer. I have also written three articles and two books. Reviewers have unfailingly awarded five stars to my latest book, Plan for Profitability! How to Write a Strategic Business Plan (Four Seasons Publishers, 1999).

Early in my career, upon fulfilling my service obligation to the U.S. Navy, I found myself at a fork in my career path. On the one hand, I had been awarded an expense-free fellowship to pursue a doctorate at the California Institute of Technology. On the other, I had several lucrative offers to pursue a career the business world. I chose the latter path while concurrently maintaining strong ties with the academic world by teaching, as an avocation, an eclectic range of subjects at five colleges and universities:

· 1957-60 Electrical Engineering University of Maryland
· 1978-79 Business Administration Catholic University
· 1979-84 Business Administration University of Colorado
· 1992-94 Computer Science Indian River Community College
· 1998-present Business Administration Rushmore University

Rushmore University

I earned both of my postgraduate degrees while pursuing a full-time business career. As many part-time students of my generation, I attended classes in the evenings and on weekends, struggling as a mid-career professional to balance the demands of business and family with the inflexibility of the traditional learning environment. I always felt that there had to be a better way to satisfy the needs of those who wanted to learn but found it awkward to adapt to the rigidity of traditional graduate school programs.

Those experiences years ago formed the basis of my interest and involvement today in Rushmore University. When I learned of the Rushmore distance-learning program, I immediately contacted the Director, Dr. Michael Cox, to apply to be a member of the faculty. Today, over three years later, I am one of the senior members of the faculty in terms of tenure. Because of my experience, I have trained most of the active faculty in Rushmore procedures and, in the process, have come to know them very well. From first-hand observation, I can state that the faculty that Dr. Cox has recruited (and continues to recruit) consists of first-rate talent from business and academia whose collective experience surpasses that of the faculties of most business schools.

I have also advised on a one-to-one basis over 200 students during my term with Rushmore and have mentored a dozen of them through their MBA degrees. I especially like working with new students in helping them to understand the fundamentals of an MBA education and to develop a curriculum that fulfills their individual needs, after which they are assigned to those faculty members with experience most relevant to their fields of interest. I have remained in contact with many of my former students after they have graduated from the Rushmore program. In some cases, I have been privileged to offer my counsel to their real-world business ventures.

The Rushmore distance-learning approach offers the motivated student more quality one-on-one time with professors than any traditional classroom forum that I have experienced. There is more opportunity for the motivated student to interact with his (or her) advisor and no opportunity whatsoever to hide by blending in with a sea of classmates. The Rushmore methodology of eschewing testing in favor of originally authored papers highlights not only what each student has truly learned from his research, but also how well he can express himself via the written word. For those students whose skills in composition are below standard, Rushmore offers detailed editing services at no extra charge.

The majority of Rushmore's students are highly motivated, mid-career professionals, just as I was when I earned my MBA. They study and interact with their advisors at times and places of their convenience, not at scheduled class times or faculty office hours. The frequency, intensity and productivity of these interchanges are far more productive than are those of the traditional classroom environment.

In addition to mid-career professionals, another group of students is being drawn in large numbers to the Rushmore program: students who live in countries in which there is little to no local access to graduate programs in business administration. Testimony to this trend lies in the composition of the Rushmore student body, which consists of students from over 60 countries.

Distance learning has clearly already established itself as an essential adjunct to traditional classroom learning. Without exception, all of the traditional establishments of higher learning are moving to establish distance-learning programs, some more rapidly than other. It is not inconceivable to envision a future in which distance learning is the mainstream methodology and classroom learning an alternative or adjunct. Regardless, Rushmore University will be recognized as a pioneer of this new educational paradigm.

Respectfully submitted,

Lee E. Hargrave, Jr.

 

Hi Jason

Your determination is admirable, but no amount of enthusiam can turn a degree mill into a legitimate school. Rushmore has no academic recognition and has shown it has no interest in changing. It is a common tactic of degree mills to say they are so innovative that the education establishment can't keep up, or that they are changing there past methods of operation. Unfortunately such explanations are merely excuses. Their only interest is cash. Good luck with your future time bomb.

 

Gosh, one person with a vested interest in Rushmore? That's it? The fact remains: you are going to take a piece of paper that has no meaning academically, and will be acceptable only in situations where people don't know any better. Just hope they don't find out.

 

How can these faculty be considered experts when they made the mistake of taking their degrees from a bunch of stodgy, conventional, tired thinking, slow to change, establishment universities. I would think a progressive, just in time, break the mold institution such as Rushmore would eschew such as those that are filled with ideas and learning instilled by such traditional minded programs.

 

Tuition comes in many forms

 

Mark - Rich, nothing you mention, whether true or false, takes away from the success of Rushmore students which is documented on their website.

Rich - "Documented." Testimonials are not documentation.

Mark - What does this mean. There are many success stories on the Rushmore website. Books published, promotions, businesses started. Their is enough information about these students on the site so someone could verify that the people are real and the stories are real

Rich - But even if taken at face value, they don't say a thing about the quality and legitimacy of the degree programs.

Mark - There is plenty of evidence of student' learning and the production of books and articles on the website.

Rich - That's left to the judgment of experts, none of which are ever in a position to do so because Rushmore has no credible oversight.

Mark - Oversight does not always work. The experts overseeing the business schools should be fired since these schools are failing. [/I]

mark- I do not understand how you can call l it a one man operation when they have so may highly qualified professors who obviously are the ones who are working with students writing these books and articles.[/I]

Rich- I didn't say there weren't instructors. I said it was a one-man university. There is no "there" there. I've been reading their materials since it was MBA University. I suspect I know a few things about it. For example, it has been run from the owner's house. Some "university."

Mark- Rushmore started small. What is wrong with that.

Mark - If you read Pfeffer's article you will see how little good oversight and accreditation has worked with business schools who have degrees with academic meaning but offer their students a curricuulum that is obsolete and wastes hundreds of hours of their time.

Rich - While the efficacy of the accreditation process for universities has been debated, there isn't any reason to believe there is a better system available.

Mark - The better system is the free marketplace. It works for almost every other kind of business.

Rich - At any rate, they don't apply to Rushmore, which isn't recognized as a university by any credible authority in the world.

Mark - It is recognized by its students, faculty, and the companies that employ them and the books the students publish.

Rich - Complaining about accreditation doesn't negate the need for it, and the recognition it provides.

Mark - Accreditation is a dinosaur. It is no longer needed. It is the problem not the solution. My wife threatens to join the forum and talk about how home schoolers perform way above students at accredited schools.

Rich - What arguments like those ignore is the multitude of nontraditional programs and schools that have been accredited. While there are certainly other changes on the horizon (or farther), they all seem to point to the inclusion of more nontraditional schools, programs, and methods. It is a lame argument.

Mark - Which schools have MBA programs as flexible as Rushmore's

Rich - Obviously the Rushmore because of its ant-establishment approach can not be accredited and can only operate out of a place with little or no regulation. Criminals use the same argument for not cooperating with the police.

Mark- So what. It is a fact that a school can only operate out of a jurisdiction that is friendly to it.

Rich - In reality, Rushmore cannot be accredited because what it doesn't isn't consistent with legitimate, degree-granting institutions.

Mark - It does not want to be accredited - it would have to sacrifice the learning of its students and become another business school with an obsolete curriculum.

Rich - It has none of the safeguards, quality controls, measurements, etc., that legitimate schools operate under.

Mark - All of the above do not work for business schools - see the Pfeffer article linked from the Rushmore home page.

Rich - Or even legitimate businesses, for that matter. "Anti-establishment" Perhaps. "Fake" would also apply. "Illegitimate," certainly.

Mark - How about the word fraud to describe the traditional business schools and their obsolete curriculum.

Rich - You can't deny the standards that make a university and then call your operation a university.

Mark - The standards of traditional business schools are so low in terms of the relevance of what students learn. So for Rushmore to be a real university it must offer the same poor programs?

Rich - There was an argument to be made in this regard 30 years ago, but those schools helped change the scene, then joined in. The ones that didn't were marginalized, or eliminated entirely. (A few continue to operate under California's marginally effective system, but not Rushmore. I guess that means what Rushmore does isn't even "approvable" by California's state standards. That's as bad an indictment as you can find.)

Mark - The approval of California or of the accreditors does not help students learn what they need in the case of business school education.

Rich - If you went around knighting people because you were "anti-establishment," they--and you--would be at best ignored and at worst ridiculed.

Mark - Almost all innovative ideas in education or anywhere else are ridiculed for a long time before being accepted as common sense. What is more common sense than the fact that business school students should learn what will help them in their career not what tenured profs want to dish out.

Rich - And the recipients would no more be knights afterwards than they were before. Rushmore may hand out pieces of paper, but they simply cannot award degrees.

Mark - Rushmore can and does. These degrees represent learning that is relevant to the students career.

Rich - And the possessors of these pieces of paper are not the bachelors, masters, and doctors they claim to be. If you doubt it, give me one authoritative source that says so.

Mark - They degrees that Rushmore issues are valid in the business world (of course not in the world of accredited and ineffective education) and Rushmore students have something to show the companies to prove they learned - the writing they do in their coursework - books and papers.

 

Re: Re: Re: PhD/DBA in business or organizational behavior that meets every r

Reply to Rich Douglas

Mark - Rich, the business professionals that become Rushmore students are revolting against “experts” (who are for the most part are tenured professors) who want to force them to study a curriculum that they know is irrelevant to their needs and will waste hundreds of hours of their time as well as boring them to tears in some cases.

Rich - Sorry, but no. You can learn in a lot sitting on a porch, discussing business with esteemed experts. But that doesn't make the porch a university.

Rich - Rushmore is not a university. No recognized agency or body says otherwise. Using the methodology as an excuse for running a degree mill doesn't cut it.

Mark - The recognized agency's that approve business schools are utter failures. They have been failures in their oversight of the public schools and now they are proved a failure at with the business schools.

Mark - As Dr. Pfeffer continues to comment and write on subject of the failure of traditional business schools’ curriculum there will be two things, a drop in business school enrollment and more and more professionals choosing to study at Rushmore.

Rich - The main reason for Rushmore's success isn't that businesses recognize Rushmore for what it really is. Their success, if you want to call it that, is that their graduates aren't easily caught. When employers find out a degree comes from an unaccredited school, their acceptance of the degree drops significantly.

Mark - Rushmore students can prove they learned something that will help an employer. Graduates of the accredited business schools are the ones in a poor position - having to defend spending 1000s of dollars and hours on irrelevant courses forced upon them by the tenured faculty.

Mark - These rebellious professionals apparently do not want to wait for tenured business professors (the experts) at the traditional business schools who make up the AACSB and other accreditation associations to reform business school curriculums. They want a solution now.

Rich - No way. There are hundreds of schools who are utterly responsive to the marketplace and who do not operate along traditional lines, yet still have accreditation.

Mark - Tell me the business schools that are doing this.

Rich - Rushmore can do whatever it wants (and can get away with legally). But staying outside the structure of the academy and still calling yourself a university is suspicious. Rushmore isn't a university. It is a business that sells degrees and pretends to be a university.

Mark - Rich, the problem with the accredited business schools is that they are not run like businesses. I guess for Rushmore to be officially a university it would have to screw up its program like the accredited biz schools

Mark - My guess is that they do not think that the “experts” who have created and oversee the business school disaster have the right to review, approve, accredit, provide credible oversight, recognize, legitimize, or be in authority over a competing school that is offering an alternative to their obsolete product. Business school associations and all other associations that accredit traditional business schools and their universities are failures in this respect.

Rich - Interesting opinion. By what measure?

Mark - Read Pfeffers article to get your answer (link on Rushmore's home page)

We often see the term "expert" used in a negative fashion by supporters of degree mills. It's because ignorance is a fundamental requirement to get away with a degree mill scam.

Mark - The term accredited is used to get away with business schools offering an incredibly bad product.

The success (books and papers published, businesses started, promotions etc.) of Rushmore students is what gives Rushmore University credibility, something that the irrelevant curriculums of traditional business schools do not have.

Where are these things?

Mark - Please see the Rushmore website.

Where is Rushmore's footprint in higher education? Where is this credibility and how is it measured? This is just hyperbole without support.

Mark - Where is the proof of the succes of the business schools' curriculum?

Mark - Over time there probably will be more and more rebellious, independent thinking business professionals who believe they know more about what will help them succeed in. Many of them will reject arguments like the ones you offered above, and become students at Rushmore.

Interesting prediction. Unless, of course, law enforcement authorities finally shut it down. Or if employers decide to get wise to it.

Mark - This is unlikely to happen as Rushmore operates legally and its students are learning things that will help them succeed.

Please show me where Rushmore has acceptance in the workplace that cannot be explained as I have. Can you imagine the reactions of employers to Rushmore if they were told the truth (or decided to check it out for themselves)? The last thing Rushmore and its graduates need is the bright glare of scrutiny. This discussion, however, provides a little. The more the merrier.

Mark - Show me why the irrelevant obsolete accredited business school degree will continue to be accepted in light of the failures of it faculty to teach students what they need.

 

Mr. Blahetka, I asked Rushmore about where they have been located. Their answer was that they were in South Dakota from the time they started in 1996 until July of 2001. At that time they moved to Grand Cayman. Rushmore's faculty were and still are US based for the most part. The Dean lives in Grand Cayman.

I am sure that in the unlikely event that Rushmore became unwelcome in Grand Cayman they could easily move to another country since everyone works virtually using the web and email.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PhD/DBA in business or organizational behavior that meets every requi

Mark - Do you have any proof that Rushmore profs do not work with the students. I see lots of proof on their website that they do.

Mark - What really "is bad" (I wanted to use the s--k word but Mrs. Stringer said it was unprofessional") is the horrible irrelevant curriculum of the accredited business schools (the people in these program are the ones who do not know better. They need to read Pfeffer's article. (linked at the Rushmore home page)

 

Mark, you put a great deal of stock in this idea that Rushmore would have to sacrifice the learning of its students and become another business school with an obsolete curriculum if it were to subject itself to the oversight of accreditation. However, Rushmore makes an explicit point of associating itself with its faculty that have graduated from the very universities that have subjected themselves to oversight of accreditation.

Rushmore identifies their "star faculty" as having taken their degrees from the most traditional of traditional programs. Yet, somehow, only the process provided by Rushmore can possibly meet the needs of the new business world.

The irony is dripping in irony.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PhD/DBA in business or organizational behavior that meets eve

Do they have any e-learning platform as e-college, first class, etc?

They seem to offer every major in the planet for a small school, does this smell right?

The school puts a lot of emphasis in the cvs of their staff. Not a good sign, they seem to just "rent" cvs and attract students this way, however, do they have programs, curriculums, courses, etc?

Do faculty get involved with students? they probably do give them some time, but don't expect them to give up their day time job for the few hundred bucks they probably pay for student (I once got some information from Rushome and their pay scale was in the range of hundreds per student supervision, I don't have the email since this was in 2002). A real university normally pays their faculty enough to get their time for students and provides them with training in teaching platforms, invest in curriculum development, etc. Rushmore does not even invest in a decent web site.

In any case, if you want to waiste your money it is OK with me. Rushmore will be in business probably few more years and then dissapear and you will end with a piece of paper from dead and unaccredited school. As good as one printed out your computer.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PhD/DBA in business or organizational behavior that meets eve

So the full school is based on an article published in the online journal "Academy of Management" which by the way is not exactly a journal with high academic impact. The article is full of flaws as lack of research methodology and lack of supporting data for evidence, it is far from an academic paper. So you are telling me that you read something and this is justification to change the complete educational system? Business schools are just the beginning of a business career and you need to learn more than that to be a succesfull business person, however, imagine a business professional without accounting or finance background? or without business law or HR?. A business degree is not the only requirement for a successfull business professional but it is a good start.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PhD/DBA in business or organizational behavior that meets eve

I think Rushmore has a long future. As long as there are people willing to rationalize away the obvious, there will be a strong market for the Rushmore's. And based on the many comments offered over the many years here and previously on AED, there seems to be an endless source for the rationalizations.

 

Paul, it is ironic. However of course Rushmore would be criticized even more if all of its faculty were its own graduates for example.

Rushmore has managed to build a faculty with not only academic credentials, but more importantly they have real-world experience and most of them are published authors.

The facts are plain to see that Rushmore model for education is superior to that of the accredited business schools. However maybe over time the accredited schools will respond to market forces and transform their program. I am betting this will take a long time as the tenured professsors at these schools have little motivation to change what they do.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: PhD/DBA in business or organizational behavior that m

PaulC,

I doubt that, even accredited online institutions are having a very hard time since people are going more for DL degrees from traditional institutions. I used to teach for an accredited online school that just closed its doors to few programs because the lack of students. Rushmore graduates will see the little value of their education and this will make future students to look somewhere else. Most of this type of schools tackle international students and they will dissapointed when their degrees are not recognized for immigration or visa purposes. Rushmore is trying to find a niche where students want more freedom and more hands on education, however, you also have many accredited programs that have excellent faculty and practical approach.
The impresive credentials of their faculty does not surprise me since millions of people want to get into online teaching, however, very few really have the commitment for online education. Most of the "real universities", screen candidates based on their commitment to online teaching by asking them for training or online teaching and you will be surprised how many of these "top faculty" don't make it just because don't have the time that it takes to give good education.