Oregon

So, will Oregon publically posts who it fines? These will make for very interesting time bomb cases.

John

 

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ODA 's site displays a list of unaccredited schools given religious exemption. Trinity is one. When I was "at" trinity I spoke with Alan several times re this.

I was provided a copy of a letter from Contreras to Martin (dean at Trinity) to the effect that after looking over Trinity's program, Oregon will allow Trinity grads to use their degrees only in religious contexts as church ministry or teaching in religious schools. Curiously, Trinity's worldwide accreditation through (then) Liverpool is not mentioned as contributing at all to Alan's decision. Hmmm, wonder why?

One who would like to be called "Dr" outside of church, too,

 

Good question, perhaps as more states pass laws against the use of "unapproved" degrees then your degree will become illegal everywhere in the USA? That is the trend.

 

Bill,

I will call you Dr. anytime!

 

As I reread my post I thought that my intent could be misunderstood. Let me try to clarify, I did not mean any disrespect to anyone especially not Dr. Jackson. I was simply stating what I see as a trend. Personally I consider it over all a good trend but I do see that for some people that already have unaccredited degrees that are equivalent or close to equivalent to a standard degree, it is in a way unfair and unfortunate.

 

It's OK, Bill, I saw your point.

I guess my point was -- will these laws also require third parties to refrain from recognizing unaccredited degree holders as legitimate doctorate holders?

I mean -- why stop at the first person definition of "use"? Why not fine people who address unaccredited degree holders as Dr., too. For instance -- if you live in Oregon, and you just addressed me as Dr., when will the day arrive that the ODA sends you a letter, telling you that you have no right to call me that?

Then, once we've gotten that out of the way ... why not fine people who write articles contesting such laws, since, after all, they tend to encourage people to stand up against them?

Then, once we've done that -- we can go backwards into the past and fine people who have ever dared use such a degree in public. We can round up their family members who dared call them Dr. in public or private, too. And anyone else who may be contributing to these heinous crimes. Put their pictures and names on telephone polls in their neighborhood: "Warning: this feller been going around writing books, winning awards, and thinking he holds a doctorate."

 

Trinity of Indiana applied to be allowed to have its degrees used in Oregon for religious purposes only, which is allowed if they meet certain very basic standards. Under Oregon law certain degrees are treated as sectarian church credentials and the state exercises only nominal authority over them.

The prohibition on "use" of a degree applies only to the holder, thus anyone else can call you Dr. or Admiral if they want to. We have interpreted "use" to mean a situation in which the degree enhances an individual's personal or professional standing for some reason. Thus merely owning the degree is legal, but putting it on your resume or your wall is not.

There is also the question of serious intent. A local radio host does a blues program and is referred to as The Mighty Reverend Dr. John. It would be absurd for my office to care whether he is a Dr. or a Reverend, though from the quality of the show I readily concede Mighty.

Any fines issued by the commission are public records as far as I know and will appear in the commission minutes on our agency web site.

I do degrees, someone else does trucks Better ask Levicoff.

 

Whew. You see, although I was conceived in Canada, my mother was estranged from my father back in the day, and up until she was three months pregnant, she lived in Portland, Oregon. Since I spent three months in Oregon, in utero, I was worried that I might be fined retroactively. With compound interest, et cetera, you can imagine my apprehension was quite unpleasant.

(There was even some question, back in the day, that my father may have been from Oregon. I vote for Prefontaine.)

 

Personally, I'm not in favor of making unaccredited degrees illegal. That would mean only accredited degrees were legal, and that changes the whole scene. New schools would have to operate with some sort of pre-approval by the accrediting agencies. If the accrediting agencies change their standards, they effectively change what is and isn't legal. Plus, this is tantamount to privatizing the approval of degree-granting colleges and unviersities. Finally, I like the fact that some schools operate outside traditional academia. Let me use an example.

There was a time when the USDoE had a process where a school could get approved for financial aid if it could demonstrate that other schools accepted their credits and degrees. It was a way for schools to bypass the private accreditors and still participate in financial aid programs. It was an interesting idea in principle, but the few schools that did it didn't really add up to much. And I'm sure the USDoE didn't want the expense and burden of making those decisons. So out it went.

I would like to see a uniform set of standards, but with monopolized standards comes conformity and the squelching of innovation. (I work for AT&T; look at the dramatically lower costs and greater services available since the break up. Can you imagine what cell phones would cost to use if AT&T was controlling them the way they used to control regular phone service? The phones would be as big as shoes, expensive as hell, and they'd all look alilke.)

Did the regional associations slow progress in DL? Or did the more prominent, free-standing DL schools like Fielding, Union, Walden, et. al., put so much pressure on the RAs because of their successes that the RAs had to change? Both? Neither? How much regulation vs. how much freedom will cut the right balance for both control and innovation?

 

Alan,

For a moment I thought The Mighty Reverend Dr. John was our own dear Dr. John Bear.

Seriously, my doctorate is both regionally and ATS accredited, nor do I live in Oregon, therefore, my pursuit of this question is not personal, but rather informational.

Are you stating that Oregon's position on the term "use" of a degree includes the following hypothetical scenario?

Dr. John, an Oregon pastor, has a regionally accredited BA and MDiv, and a non-accredited (but substantive) doctorate. Lets say the doctorate was a 60 hour program, 200 page dissertation, etc., so this rules out degree mills where one exchanges money for the degree. He then uses the letters Ph.D./DBA/D.Min., (or, Dr. John) etc., on his church sign, business cards, newpaper advertisements, phone directory, etc. Could this pastor be fined by the state for using the degree, title or letters?

Thank you for your response and contribution to this forum.

 

Making the use of degrees from non-accredited degrees illegal USA-wide would effectively make the "voluntary" nature of accreditation manditory.

Private organizations would then, without having been voted in, hold the power to change law -- since their policies would, in effect, become "law" within their region.

Et cetera.

 

To Russell's question about the hypotehtical Dr. John with an unaccredited doctorate, the degree holder has two options to "legalize" the degree for use in Oregon. First, we generally allow religious degrees to be used for strictly religious purposes, there are certain ways we can achieve that end. To use the degree for a secular purpose he would need to provide to ODA evidence that the issuing school could meet the standards of an accreditor in key areas (award of credit, faculty qualifications, length of program, admissions) if it chose to apply. If the user can make this showing, ODA approves the school and its unaccredited degrees are legal for use. We have done this with two schools, Bob Jones U and the Univ for Humanistic Studies in California (done by my predecessor). We have formally rejected one school, California Coast U. We have one school in process, Southern California University for Professional Studies.

In Oregon an unaccredited school can start any time it wants to and offer legal degrees. All it has to do is meet the state approval standards. Several have done this.

 

Alan,

Would one be safe in assuming, then, that the issue is not so much regional accreditation/national accreditation/GAAP, but that a school apply for and meet Oregon's standards for approval if it does not hold such accreditation?

And if an unaccredited school, or an individual with a degree from such a school, petitions the ODA for recognition of the degree, then:

1. Who makes the determination as to acceptability? A committee, one individual, etc.?
2. What is the criteria for recognition?
3. Have these criteria been passed by Oregon's legislature, or how were they developed?

Again, thanks for your response.

 

Mighty generous. This is such a good idea that they should put it in the constitution.

 

Hi Russell. Over the years I've had a number of e-mails from you so I know how interested you are in these issues.

Yes, Oregon's statute ORS 348.609 says that a degree must be accredited OR the school approved by ODA; there is no total freezeout of unaccredited schools.

The approval standards are set in rule by the commission to which I report. They are codified at OAR 583-030 (for schools) and 583-050 (for degree use); both rules are available via the ODA web site sidebar.

I make the decisions regarding degree validation and school approval based on whether the regulatory standards are met. I cannot rescind a school's approval, only the commission can do that. Only the commission can issue a fine for noncompliance.

 

Thanks, Alan, for the information.

And again, your participation on this forum is most appreciated and informative.

 

CCU?

Mr. Contreras,

May I ask on what grounds was CCU rejected? Was it on a number of things or just one? Did its state approval come into play and was the California’s process considered strenuous enough?

Thank you for your input. As a student of CCU, I am very interested on the reasons why your office rejected the school and if there will be any redemption in the future.

Michael

 

I need to clarify that Oregon has formally rejected only *doctoral* degrees issued by California Coast. Since those are the ones we almost always see, I sometimes forget that they issue other degrees. We have not evaluated other levels of degrees issued by CCU.

Our rejection was based on several factors related to policies on the award of credit, lack of information about faculty and a problem with admission standards for doctoral programs.

We don't ever look at the approval standards of another state unless for some reason there is a special reason to do so. When state laws are so divergent as to allow anything with a pulse or no unaccredited schools at all, sorting them all out is impossible. Then they change the next year.

What our law requires us to do is determine whether the school has a reasonable chance to meet the academic standards of an appropriate accreditor if it chose to apply. This process is used only for U.S. schools that do not want to go through the full-scale ODA approval process (and pay the fees).

 

A graduate of an unaccredited school moves to Oregon and states "I hold a Ph.D. from XYZ University." Are you really saying this is not speech?

 

David Boyd

To say I hold a PhD from XYZ University is speech and it is a fact.

To say John Smith Phd (XYZ University 1998) is a fact.

To say John Smith PhD maybe implies more than the first two.