One-year Online DMSc.

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Rocky Mountain College is offering a one-year Doctor of Medical Science (DMSc.). The tuition is $30k for the entire program, payable in four $7,500 installments.
  2. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Interesting how it's designed for PAs. Wouldn't they still be frowned upon for going by "Dr. Whoever" in a medical setting?
  3. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    That's what I used to think too. In a recent discussion, several people suggested that it's okay to do so as long as you follow up with your title. Example: I am Dr. John Brown, and I'm a physician assistant.. or I am Dr. Jane Doe, and I'm a nurse practitioner.

    At least one MD doesn't seem to be a fan of the DMSc.:

    Is there a New Doctor in Town: Doctor of Medical Science (PA Medicine)

    "It appears it’s actually a Master’s degree curriculum repackaged and called a doctorate degree."
  4. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    Today I learned.

    I suppose no one likes it when their cartel is challenged.
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  5. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Oof. Baxter really gave it to the author:

    "So the nurse that was so desperate for the title of doctor that he attended Oceana University in Samoa (accredited in the Philippines) is accusing legitimate doctoral programs of being “diploma mills”? Don’t worry sir. Even if someone else earns a terminal degree, you are still special."

    I love that, except for the obvious negatively intended mention of the school being accredited in the Philippines. Stuff like that always feels like it has a bit of ethnocentrism underlying it.
    chrisjm18 and SteveFoerster like this.
  6. Garp

    Garp Active Member

    Exactly, plus although it would not be a first choice, it is legitimately accredited and has produced practicing doctors in the US, Australia and possibly elsewhere. It also is designed for NP or PA to MD transitions. It is an option for some who are working and looking to make the transition or to become an MD.
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  7. Jahaza

    Jahaza Member

    This is ridiculous, it's just not enough credits. It's only 36 credits beyond a Masters degree. It should be a second Masters or at most a specialist degree (Like Ed.S.). For a doctorate it should be at least 40 something and better 60 and include at least a research project if not a dissertation. That would align it with other professional doctorates for people who have terminal Masters degrees. (MBA/DBA, MDiv/DMin, MSW/DSW, MPH/DrPH).

    This is the fault of the degree inflation of first JDs and then the healthcare professions other than medicine including pharmacy and physical therapy.
  8. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    We discussed credit requirements on another thread. Apparently the number of credits is not important. At Temple University, the Ph.D. in CJ only requires 18 credits beyond a master's degree. Temple has produced a lot of criminal justice faculty/researchers.
  9. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    In a medical setting, the title "doctor" is a professional one, not an academic one.

    Until recent developments, those who held an academic title (like Doctor of Philosophy), but were not physicians or other practitioners licensed at the doctor level (like optometrists, chiropractors, psychologists, etc.) refrained from using the title in clinical settings. For example, a nurse with a PhD might called "doctor" when being introduced giving a talk or when teaching a class, but would not be addressed as such in his/her clinical setting.

    This is why I object to people licensed as counselors using the title "doctor" when they've earned a PhD--it encroaches on psychologists, who ARE supposed to use the title professionally.

    PAs and NPs are not yet, professionally, "doctors." Yes, some nurse practitioners are trained in DNP programs, but they are not "doctors" in professional practice. This, and the DMsc stuff for PAs will inevitably lead to some confusion until this can all be worked out. (Well, it WAS ALREADY worked out until these developments.)

    The key is the licensing, not the degree title. But there will be plenty of examples of this distinction getting blurred, naturally.
  10. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    Medical doctors do not own the title, "doctor."

    "Even though DNP-educated nurses can use the title of doctor, many choose to clarify their role when speaking with patients. Some introduce themselves as a doctor but explain that their responsibility is as a nurse. "

    Addressing DNP-Educated Nurses as Doctor,signals%20excellence%20in%20the%20profession.&text=DNP%2Deducated%20nurses%20utilize%20clinical,nursing%20leadership%20and%20healthcare%20policy.

    Some Doctoral-Prepared Nurses Use The Title, “Doctor” and It’s Causing a Heated Debate
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't think I said that. Lemme see....nope. I never said anything like that. But I agree with you; they don't own it.
  12. JoshD

    JoshD Active Member

    I certainly agree with this, as there are various type of doctoral holders. That said, our society has placed a heavy emphasis on “Doctor = Physician” when we certainly know that is not the case.
    RoscoeB and chrisjm18 like this.
  13. scaredrain

    scaredrain Member

    Sounds a bit like the case of faculty members with a JD. We have two faculty members who hold JD's and they teach all of our business law and business ethic courses. Neither want to be referred to as Dr on their business cards nor do they want faculty and students to refer to them as Dr. The funny thing is that we have a few JD's who are adjuncts and they refer to themselves as Dr. and will correct you if you do not call them Dr.
    JoshD likes this.
  14. copper

    copper Active Member

    Did you even bother to look at how many credits it takes to earn a MPAS? I'll save you the time, 80 plus and a couple thousand clinical hours in 28 months full time. Personally, in comparison, the MPAS is superior in academic/clinical rigor to the MSN/NP (45 plus credits and 500 hours clinicals) but comes close to the DNP/NP program (3 years, 75 credits, 1000 plus clinical hours). So it's not unrealistic to earn a doctorate by adding another 36 graduate credits to the MPAS! With that said, I still can't find much utility in earning a DMSc unless it somehow aligns itself with other doctoral degree holding "mid levels" for a make you feel important or better about yourself credential??
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2020 at 3:19 PM
  15. copper

    copper Active Member

  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure why.

    Doctoral programs around the world follow one of two models: research or taught. In the US. almost all doctoral programs are taught. That is, they have a curricular component along with a dissertation (or comparable project for professional degrees). But in many other countries, the doctorate is awarded on the basis of the doctoral thesis alone. Any coursework undertaken is at the discretion of the individual supervisor, based on the candidate's learning needs, and is not typically transcripted.

    Depending on the scope of the doctoral project--and the master's-level preparation required (which is extensive for PAs and NPs), a shorter taught program could be reasonable. (That school's MPAS, for example, requires 111 s.h. For a master's!)

    These degrees fit into a context, they do not stand alone. They have to be considered in that context.
  17. copper

    copper Active Member

    I agree! Read the previous posts. "This is ridiculous, it's just not enough credits."
  18. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I did. But it isn't necessary to respond to every one of them.
  19. Linguaphile89

    Linguaphile89 New Member

    I don't know enough about PA's to really know the value of something like this, but I'd assume that without the backing of a professional licensing body or accrediting body saying that such a doctorate is required for advancement or for instructing lower degree levels of PA studies, I wonder if there's utility? Obviously, I'm all for the personal satisfaction of the pursuit itself, just curious.

    From a personal standpoint, with all of the work required to get to the point where you could undertake one of these programs, it might have been more prudent to just become a physician. Hah.
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Perhaps. However, it might behoove one to examine the exclusive and difficult nature of being admitted to a medical school in the US before jumping to that conclusion.

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