Number of senior FBI & DOJ officials fired under POTUS

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by me again, Jul 3, 2018.

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  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Allegations of fraternizing with Russians? Again, the Trumps are friends with Agalarovs (who are family with Comrade Heydar Aliev's family. For the benefit of the locals. Comrade Aliev was KGB General, Party boss of Azerbaijan, and the Full Member of Politburo - in short, Maj. Vladimir Putin did not have seniority to drive his Volga. Junior's friend Aras married his granddaughter). And they do not have documented honorable service with the U. S. Army for 20 years.
    General Flynn was flown to the RT event in Moscow, was paid a stipend, wined, dined, and applauded Mr. Putin himself. You know Manafort's deal in detail. So justifying your crowd's bigotry towards your fellow immigrant Vyndman in the way you do it is willfully ignorant. And you know you're not standing for the truth if you have to lie to yourself thusly.
     
  2. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    I have zero knowledge of Manafort's deal. As to allegations abut the details of Vindaman fraternizing with Russians and the commanding officer's report has nothing to do with the spin of Trumps are friends with Agalarovs.
    I personally wasn't there nor you.
    As to Flynn's meetings with Russian ambassador Sergey Kislyak, it was one of a series of events that called into question his positions on Russia—his decision to attend broadcaster RT's anniversary dinner in 2015, where he was pictured sitting next to Putin, also caused controversy. Do you want to bring Obamas and Hillary dealing with Russia?

    The concern was that the FBI knew that Russian nuclear industry officials had engaged in bribery, kickbacks, extortion and money laundering designed to help Russian President, and one of the world’s richest man, Vladimir Putin, increase his commercial nuclear ambitions inside the United States, in violation of the Foreign Corrupt Practices Act.

    The State Department and several government agencies on the Committee on Foreign Investment in the United States first unanimously approved the 2010 partial sale of Canadian mining company Uranium One to the Russian nuclear giant Rosatom, supposedly giving Moscow control of more than 20% of America’s uranium supply.

    Rather than take action against this deal, the Department of Justice just continued investigating the matter for years, essentially leaving the American public, Congress, the Secretary of State and the Administration in the dark about more Russian meddling in the United States, this time involving nuclear.
     
  3. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Here is one analysis: Not by me:
    You be the judge.

     
  4. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Dude, Paul Manafort was Viktor Yanukovych's sidekick for a decade (which is apparently pattern for him; he's an evil henchman for hire to the worst of the worst). I knew this before Trump ever hired him; don't you read Ukrajinska Pravda? In addition, the dude was doing schemes with Deripaska, one of Putin's scarier oligarchs.

    Flynn lost his mind to conspiracy theories, and started working with Rosatom, RT, and Putin long before Trump hired him. That's no setup. Also, Agalarov connection is from the time Trump organized Miss Universe in Moscow with the elder Agalarov; the fact they're on first name basis is evident from the e-mail on Trump Tower meeting released to the press by Don Jr (far from Fake News).

    In short, the fact that your crowd is OK with all this, but is hating on Vyndman, is because Vyndman is not "one of them". Neither are you. But if you want to keep lying to yourself, I can't stop you.
     
  5. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    My crowd? or your crowd?
    left attacks are not conspiracy theories, they are conspiracies.
    I don't hate Vindaman. To be honest the whole impeachment fiasco appears to me as if it was a decade ago.
    It's obvious there was no extortion or anything else but left inflated wich hunt.
    Not relevant at all. Which hunt that mostly failed.
    At this point, I don't need to continue this debate. You can have the final word.
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Active Member

    True that Flynn has not yet been sentenced but he pleaded guilty to some crimes. My understanding is that makes him guilty of a felony. When someone has admitted that they committed a crime, it seems strange to argue otherwise. I guess unless you live in the Trump World where reality is apparently defined by the most recent words tweeted by or spoken by President Donald J. Trump?
     
  7. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Bill, I'm not in any way a professional in the sphere of law, I would not pass investigation 101 if I had to take the exam today. People who know a lot more about the law make a better explanation.
    The opinions may differ. Obviously one of the chief Justices Anthony Scalia in his words in 2017 stated something in support of what you posted and there are others who offer different views.

    Just to put it in contrast.

    A former federal prosecutor has written extensively about the tactic of luring suspects into lies. (not illegal tactic, the law allows this)
    He indicated the following - What the agency did to Flynn was wrong because it is wrong to induce an otherwise not-guilty person to break the law.
    Precisely how some get away with this and how federal laws could be reformed to eradicate the practice. Federal statute 18 USC 1001 makes it a crime to lie to the feds on a "material" matter, even if the agency already knows the truth, aren't misled, and the lie doesn't affect the investigation. This incentivizes the agency to use these tactics in the first place, to try to trick suspects into a lie that could be used against them. The former federal prosecutor argues that if people truly care about these tactics, they should lobby Congress to change the federal statute that makes the practice legal.

    President Trump appears ready to do his part in getting rid of the practice:

     
  8. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Sigh.
    1. Trump leads a transparently anti-immigrant political campaign. Lerner, immigrant, applauds.
    2. Putin invades Ukraine. Flynn, a war hero, travels to a banquet thrown by Russia Today, Russian propaganda front, sits across Putin, eats, drinks, and claps like a trained sea lion. Flynn gets caught lying to the FBI. Lerner, a Ukrainian immigrant, defends war hero Flynn.
    Trump supporters are not your friends, Lerner. Do not debase yourself trying to gain their acceptance. We are all dirty forrinerz to them, every one of us.
     
  9. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Stanislav,
    You mischaracterized my responses.
    I responded on many issues, the ones I agree on policy and the ones I don't.
    I stated many times that I'm for compassionate Immigration policy. Illegal immigration with human trafficking, prostitution, crimes, etc is a separate issue from legal immigration trearment.
    Someone needs to protect the citizens and legal immigrants. Yes, I'm against the demonization of Immigrants. One can affect changes from outside in opposition and one can affect the policy from inside.
    I'm not a politician but a regular professional who works hard to support a family of 5, I want what most Americans want. Freedom, Security, and being able to provide, employment, etc.
    I want a good healthcare system for all Americans.
     
    Last edited: May 5, 2020
  10. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    THEY mix it all the time. Don't pretend they are not. It even extended to work migration and "chain migration" (family reunification) - Melania benefited from both of these.

    Trump is not a subtle person. Do you think YOU are not from a "sh1thole country" to them? Do you believe that they are now feeling better about refugee and asylee programs, now that top 1 or 2 category of such are Lautenberg Amendment applicants from Ukraine (after he banned Middle Easter applicants)? We're not top of the queue of hate now, because of our paler complexions, but (1) for how long and (2) ewww! BTW did you know that some of the earliest racial riots were against Eastern European immigrants?

    Immigration, or rather anti-immigrant rhetoric, is front and centre of the Trumpist politics. To make sure immigrants are not demonized, these kinds of politics should not win elections. Right now during pandemic, Trump finds time to sign useless executive orders just to try and appease his nativist base. In Canada, I swore never to vote Conservative, because Harper used way weaker dog whistles like "abusing Canadian generosity" and Kenney forcing "immigration fraud" moral panic - even though Cons INCREASED numbers of immigrants and went out of their freaking way to be seen as friends of both Ukrainian Canadians and Ukraine proper. Canadian Cons, in short, an order of magnitude better than Trump on these. Yet, even a hint of nativist populism should be enough to disqualify a pol. If we immigrants don't stand up for immigrants, what hope there is?

    Re-read your own quotes on Vyndman. They are "othering" him as not fully American, even in your more careful quotes! In fact, "othering" people for their Dem politics is even more dangerous - we are talking the majority of voters! Don't you see how dangerous and un-American that is?

    I'm also not a political activist, and have a family of 4 to feed. I can't even vote (yet).
     
  11. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    ...all this, and I disagree with Trump pretty much on everything. Biden/(Warren|Harris|Adams|Klobuchar|X: Female(X)&Democrat(X)) '2020.
     
  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    DOJ drops case against former Trump adviser Michael Flynn!
    The U.S. attorney reviewing the Flynn case, Jeff Jensen, formally recommended dropping it to Barr last week

    The documents are now public, we know this was a setup, but if you hate President Trump, it-just-doesn't-matter...
    There would have been no Mueller investigation had some not used forged documents to spy on President Trump.
    And as the public knows the whole thing started by someone who signed three FISA warrants with the information he knew to be false.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
    GTFLETCH likes this.
  13. GTFLETCH

    GTFLETCH Member

    Looks like Trump was right, the SWAMP needed to be drained. I look fwd to seeing the thread updated with all of the others who will be fired/resigned over this BS!
     
    heirophant likes this.
  14. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Sure, it's an outrage it isn't even easier for the likes of Trump to get away with stuff.
    The whole idea of the Special Prosecutor was that political hacks like Barr are not supposed to do stuff like this. Yet here we are. It shouldn't be possible for US President to be able to say "the AG is 100% my man", like Zelensky did, yet it's exactly how it looks.
     
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    This whole thing was a setup. One must be so blinded with hate toward President Trump not to see this.
    It's expected that the double standard Dem's will blame Barr, yes he met with President Trump to discuss the "mater" grandchildren in the back of the plane.

    Stanislav there is still hope for you, you are moving to the great state of TX. I'm sure you will in no time start seeing things differently.
    You will see that these who setup General Flynn are just the kind of people that destroy every ideal this country was established on.
    You should notice that they’re destroying these people.

     
  16. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/guess-who-came-dinner-flynn-putin-n742696

    If you can't see anything wrong with the picture in that article, you forgot too much from your background.

    Barr had no business to get involved at all; this is the whole idea of "special" prosecutor. You are supporting a gang for which even the likes of Jeff Sessions are too ethical. Worst of all, it's all in vain; for a real MAGA American, you're still not "one of them" and will never be. You and I are still and forevermore immigrant moochers for them, and even if you'll deport your own cousin and show up to build the wall personally, you'll still be an immigrant moocher.
     
  17. heirophant

    heirophant Well-Known Member

    When the national police and security agencies (FBI, "Justice" Department etc.) become politicized to the point where they start to function as secret-police against political enemies on behalf of a favored political party, the future of American democracy is clearly in greater danger than it's ever been in all of US history. (Including the World Wars and the Civil War.) I'm scared for the future of our country.

    That's probably my foremost reason for supporting President Trump. He's basically all that stands between the American people and the US becoming a sham-democracy much like Putin's Russia of today, where ostensible "elections" still take place but where the "deep state" and the security apparatus only allow one candidate to win.

    Probably my favored solution isn't to force firings and resignations, it isn't criminal prosecutions. It's more along the lines of political affirmative action, where government agencies like these are required to have Republicans and democrats in rough proportion to their proportions of the voting public. That's far more important to the survival of our country than having a suitable percentage of women or blacks in those jobs. The reason is because if anyone tries again to engineer a 'soft-coup', there will be enough co-workers around of the opposite persuasion to abort it or make it public.

    That's probably the best way to ensure the professionalism and incorruptability of these agencies. Make it such that any corruption would be quickly detected.
     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    If the survival of the country depends on propping up a political duopoly so broken and corrupt that out of 330 million Americans the best false choice it could offer is a pair of senile sexual abusers, then you can definitely count me out.
     
  19. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    That is all kinds of wrong. The most obvious problem: Robert Mueller and James Comey are both lifelong Republicans. Actually, there is no way LE is tilted towards liberals, antipathy towards all kinds of "cops" is one of the more obvious mistakes the Left is making.
     
  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I really do not believe "Joe Biden sex abuse" story. But, yeah, it's weird these two are top choices. But this is how it always works. In Canada, it was creepy wingnut vs. legacy trust fund pretty boy. One thing democracy is supposed to do is to filter out and contain the worst, like Trump; it failed at that. Let's see if it'll correct itself in November.
     

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