New York Times, NPR and Others inacurancies in reporting or biased media?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Lerner, Jan 22, 2024.

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  1. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    After all, Lerner...here in the United States, we called it "Winning the West." Same basic idea.
     
  2. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I don't know exactly what should have been done after the horrible October 7 attack. What I do know is that at that point in time almost the whole world was on Israel's side. Israel should have used their advantage at that point to undermine Hamas. Something like working on getting forces into Gaza with as little damage as possible. Then starting a program to give huge rewards to folks to secretly rat out the Hamas soldiers. Arrest the terrorists and send poison gas into the tunnels or something. I can't pretend to know the best detailed way to do this. The idea though is that Hamas is bad and Israel is good. Only take actions that keep the high ground. Hamas is bad Israel is good. It would have to turn out far better than where we are at now.
     
  3. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    That's the hell of it. What would I have Israel do? I can think of one or two approaches but all that is past praying for. This grisly horror show will have to unspool its last reel.
     
  4. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    True, what I can do now though is blame and dislike Benjamin Netanyahu for the grisly horror show that is unspooling now.
     
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    The problem is that there is no way for Israel to take action without civilian casualties, and the moment there are civilian casualties, the most-of-the-world that's supposedly on Israel's side says, "Whoa, we didn't mean that."
     
  6. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Israel has flattened almost all of Gaza, something like 25,000 killed and 64,000 injured. I'm not so sure that was all necessary.
     
    Suss likes this.
  7. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Some thoughts:
    Hezbollah, in Lebanon, has estimated 150,000 to 250,000 rockets, including precision missiles and large army of combatants. I think from past wars with Israel and also looking at what happened to Gaza, it may be a factor in preventing a full-blown war in the North. Also people in Gaza hurting may be? Will be thinking twice attacking Israel? Just speculating but the main goal is killing combatants under and on the ground.
    In reality Gaza Strip is not a regular area, it's 500 miles of tunnels and bunkers, rocket launchers from schools, residential areas etc. It took 15 years to build, it will take time to defeat and blowup the infrastructure, maybe not all of it but a good portion of it.
    Israel should be able to complete the destruction of all the tunnels etc. Israel provides advanced warning to civilians, providing time to evacuate.

    Maybe if we look at what was achieved when Berlin was leveled?
     
  8. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    It's amazing how few protesters are calling on Hamas to cease fire.

    Of course Israel had to respond, and I shed not a tear for Hamas militants. I simply ask the question of whether or not it was possible for Israel to attack Hamas without "accidentally" killing more children and babies than terrorists.
     
  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    It occurs to me that Netanyahu may be looking for something beyond merely delaying his fall from political grace. He might be banking on making himself "The man that ended Hamas" and therefore an untouchable Israeli hero. That's worth a few thousand dead babies and children, right?
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Me either, although I wouldn't claim to know either way. My point is more that when Israeli policymakers would reasonably expect world opinion to turn on them even for responding proportionally, there's no disincentive for them to respond disproportionally.
     
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  11. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    The International Court of Justice 01 26 2024 highly anticipated ruling did not include a demand for an immediate ceasefire in Israel’s ongoing military offensive against the Gaza Strip.
    In its written decision, the ICJ wrote that Israel must act in “accordance with its obligations under the Genocide Convention,” to prevent acts considered genocidal by the convention they are signatories to.
    The measures demanded of Israel include ensuring that their military does not commit acts outlined by the convention.
    While the court lacks a hard enforcement mechanism for the order, as a signatory to the convention, Israel is expected to abide by the ruling.
    Gallant Israeli Defense Minister added that the nation “will continue operating to dismantle the military and governing capabilities of the Hamas terrorist organization, and to return the hostages to their homes.”
     
  12. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    The focus of the letter from top former Israeli national security officials is that Netanyahu must be removed because of his government totally botching the October 7 attack. Which did have a horribly bad, embarrassingly bad, mind boggling bad IDF response.

    quote:
    Netanyahu must be removed, top former Israeli national security officials say
    More than 40 senior former Israeli national security officials, celebrated scientists and prominent business leaders have sent a letter to Israel’s president and speaker of parliament demanding that Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu be removed from office for posing what they say is an “existential” threat to the country.

    The signatories on the letter include four former directors of Israel’s foreign and domestic security services, two former heads of the Israel Defense Forces (IDF) and three Nobel Prize winners.

    The letter blasts the coalition Netanyahu assembled to form the most right-wing government ever in Israel, along with his highly controversial efforts to overhaul Israel’s judiciary that they say led to security lapses that resulted in the October 7 attacks, the deadliest day in Israel’s history.


    https://www.cnn.com/2024/01/26/middleeast/netanyahu-letter-israel-national-security-intl/index.html
     
  13. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Sure. Now just who is going to bell the cat? No one. No one CAN except the Israeli electorate and Bibi is giving his Hard Right supporters exactly what they want. These people may not be an absolute majority but unlike the Center and Left, they have the strategic discipline to coalesce into a handful of Parties who will win a slight majority of Knesset seats. Netanyahu brings the largest number of seats to the coalition table and the Hard Right knows they can't achieve their goals without him. Ergo: Bibi is going nowhere..
     
  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    The Hamas attack was a godsend to Netanyahu and his government. As Palestinian Arab leaders inevitably do, they assumed the deep divisions and massive protests over judicial reform would translate to a weak State of Israel because that's what happens amongst their own "allies". A glance at an unbiased history book (which they carefully lack) would have shown that however deep the divisions Israelis will ALWAYS come together to defend their State from any external threat. The attack took most of the heat of Netanyahu.
     
  15. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/column-israel-defend-itself-only-103123115.html

    What if Mexico attacked Texas in the same way that Hamas attacked Israel on Oct 7. Imagine this savage and barbaric attack had the support of 75% of Mexicans.
    How would US respond? By now there would not be much of Mexico left?
    Turkey’s attacks on the Kurds, China’s on the Uyghurs, everybody’s attacks on Syrians, are examples. There are no protests.

    Israel is the only country in the world that is not allowed to win. It is the only country where the media and groups like Oxfam completely accept the casualty figures from one side. The numbers you read are from the Gaza Health Ministry, which is politically controlled by Hamas. We do not know how many people have died. Moreover we do not know how many casualties are civilians and how many are Hamas terrorists.
     
  16. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    We know the answer because it happened.
     
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  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    !בהחלט Damn right!

     
    Last edited: Jan 26, 2024

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