Need Help with Degree Completion Strategy

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by mr.wonderful, Apr 23, 2016.

  1. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Beware the deductive approach in such things--starting with a point of view and then searching for some facts to support it. That sees a lot of hopefuls backed into corners.

    Better the inductive approach: see the facts available and draw inferences from them. In other words, see and accept the truth, even if it is counter to your cherished beliefs.

    Then there's the constructivist perspective, where each of us enjoys his/her own reality.
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Is the interest even there anymore? I remember a time when this seemed to be a much bigger subject of discussion and maybe that's where all the research interest came from. I know some NA accreditors have put out data over the years about this, but without understanding exactly how they arrived at the data there is always the possibility of confirmation bias.
  3. tomlapendos

    tomlapendos New Member

    Consider a liberal arts B.S. from Excelsior. It is the most flexible option I know. Excelsior College | Excelsior College
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 26, 2016
  4. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Honestly, I can't see this even being a discussion.

    Are there RA universities that accept NA credits? Yes. Are there RA universities that accept NA undergrad degrees for admission to grad programs? Yes. Are there people with NA degrees working with "good" jobs at "good" companies? Yes. Are there even a few people with NA grad degrees teaching at RA schools? Yes.

    However, that doesn't mean that it's a particular wise path to follow if any of the above are your goal. NA degrees are fine "check the box" degrees in many cases. I know of someone who was working at a convenience store but was prevented from becoming a General Manager because she didn't have a college degree. Her B.S. from Ashworth helped her "check the box" and receive a substantial pay raise. For myself, my MSM checked another box to allow for an in-family promotion.

    Many NA success stories are similar. But you are unlikely to be pumping gas (for a living) on Monday, receive your Penn Foster B.S. on Wednesday and be working at Blackrock on Friday.

    UPeople degrees, in many cases, are "fine" if you accept the limitations. Perhaps UPeople will secure a few articulation agreements that will make them even more competitive. But NA degrees are always going to have noticeable limitations especially in higher ed. You can predict that you might never run into any of those limitations based upon your current life trajectory. Hey, that's fine, but don't whine when you run into one of those limitations down the road.

    It's like studying at a non-ABA law school and taking the CA bar. Yeah, you might not be able to practice in Chicago. But if you're born and raised in CA and intend fully to spend the rest of your days in that state then maybe it's a fine thing to do.

    But if you get that non-ABA law degree expecting to parlay that into a respectable law career at a top firm outside of CA you're probably going to be disappointed. Again, it's a perfectly fine life hack for a lot of people. But you're not saving yourself any work by doing it that way. Instead, you're spending likely the same amount of effort in a much riskier way.
  5. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    That's right, we can't be certain and that's why it's silly. As for your contention that Berkley is taking UoftP "top grads," you don't really know this either. All any of us know is that about 5 minutes ago Berkeley said they would consider accepting their credits. I'll bet not even one person has even been accepted at this point yet you're making assertions about what Berkeley will and won't do. You want to play on both sides of the street, first saying what Berkeley will do (when you can't really be certain) and then you want to say "Without the latest survey data we can't be certain." Your argument has big holes on both sides.
  6. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    So when will the boards be shutting down? I ask because we discuss lots of things here that we're not certain of because we don't always have all the information, what with being human and having that pesky lack of omniscience and all...

    Well, I know, the people who've read the article know, and now you Kizmet shall know.


    "Berkeley said that it will take on qualified, top-performing graduates from UoPeople's associate degree programme who wish to complete a bachelor’s degree at the university."


    Yezzzzz... disproven above, entirely. Thanks for playing! :wavey:
  7. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    You're...kidding, right?

    You're basing your entire argument off of a third party report? Because the media never glosses over details, right?

    Look, if you said "I called Berkeley and they said X" then fine, you have an interesting nugget of information. But the likelihood that the article simplified the situation is high. Or, is it your contention that Berkeley, with an acceptance rate of 14.8% is going to automatically accept the "top" students from UPeople?

    Seats at Berkeley are valuable. So how many are they dedicating to UPeople? Will they take on their top 3? Top 10? Only the valedictorian? You don't actually know. You have a vague reference that you're taking as an absolute.

    If what you are asserting is correct then a typical student would be stupid not to try to get in through UPeople. Trying to claw your way into the 14.8% is probably harder than climbing to the "top" of the UPeople class.

    Of course, for all we know, Berkeley is only willing to accept one semester worth of credits from UPeople. We just don't know the terms of the agreement. But the idea that a highly competitive university just created a sure fire way to get accepted through a new, non traditional college program isn't just optimistic it is borderline delusional.

    Sorry, Max, but I'd say you missed it by that much.
  8. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    It was a bigger discussion because (a) this board got popular, (b) DEAC got into accrediting degree-granting schools in a big-time way after 1980, (c) I researched the subject for my doctoral dissertation and posted about it, (d) John Bear surveyed admissions officials about the subject, and (e) a bunch of people holding degrees from NA schools didn't like the facts pointed out.

    So what's changed? Not much that we know of. While we don't have more recent data (except DEAC surveys of graduates every few years that show, sadly, confirming results), we also don't have reason to think it's changed much. So, except for the rare hotheaded NA degree holder in denial, there really isn't much to talk about. It is what it is.

    I'd love to see an update, but who's going to do it? Where are you going to find the next person who's highly motivated to see the results, like John and I were? Neither project was particularly expensive to do, but both were very difficult to analyze. (I know; I analyzed both of them.) I was a stats geek who was working on a doctorate, and John was very interested in the results and presenting them. (He presented his results to the group he surveyed, AACRAO. I published my dissertation and graduated.)

    It would be wonderful to see an improved scene for holders of NA degrees. You'd think there was someone doing a doctorate at an NA school that might be interested in this topic, assuming he/she (a) even knew about it and (b) could demonstrate how it would make an original contribution.

    Until then, let the anecdotes and the unsupported assessments fly!
  9. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator

    Well, I guess we'll see how many actually make it to Berkeley. Beyond that I'd only want to say that I'm sorry you felt the need to act like an ass. You're not usually like that.
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    The OP has posted more detailed information on the other forum, and they're helping him with degree planning. He seems to really want a degree in CS, but might settle for business administration. He doesn't seem to have any interest in a liberal arts degree.
  11. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    You sound as if you're almost hoping they don't. How charming.

    So let me get this straight: I state something that was actually written in an article--an article you clearly didn't bother to read--you then attempt to blast me over it, I respond to it lighthearted with the quote and source, you then respond with the insult quoted above, and I'M the one acting like an "ass"? Are you serious?

    Kizmet, you acted out, you were wrong, and now you're being a hypocrite. Get over yourself. You're usually classier than that.
  12. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    You're over-analyzing an issue that doesn't evidently exist through any statement made by Berkeley, University of The People, or Times Higher Education.

    Look, I'm the first one to call the media out over things, but what grounds do we have to think that somehow what they reported about Berkeley accepting UotP's top grads isn't true? Everybody knows Berkeley is a big deal, but what the article says is what it says. I didn't write it, I'm just quoting it. If it's somehow not accurate it'll be known eventually one way or another.
  13. Steve Levicoff

    Steve Levicoff Well-Known Member

    I'd like to read that thread. Got a link?

    As for this thread, which is currently at four pages and has not seen a second post from the OP, it all seems pretty useless. Face it, this poor guy posted a specific request, was never invited to go ahead and post his current credits, but was bombarded with a debate on the liberal arts, a debate on NA vs. RA, and an overwhelming suggestion from many people that he should do things how (and where) they did them.

    If I were the OP, I would have run like hell from this thread before it even went to a second, let alone fourth, page.
  14. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Nobody breaks it down quite like you Steve! :smile:
  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    He was invited to post his credits by me. It was post #4. I did also recommend posting on the other forum since they can provide more specific help with degree planning. People here usually suggest the BS in Liberal Arts and are done with it.
    Need Help with Degree Completion Strategy
  16. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    When Levicoff is the "voice of reason" we should ALL run like hell...
  17. BusinessManIT

    BusinessManIT Member

    Programming is Hard

    I agree that programming is very hard to do well. For the last couple of years I have been doing maintenance programming. Try getting a work request where a program has failed and the client needs an immediate resolution. You look at the program, which is several thousand lines of code, scratch your head, and start researching, knowing that the client expects you to work on this until the problem is corrected. A lot of pressure. And when you are able to find the problem and correct it, you get another request. And another and another, working concurrently on multiple issues at the same time.
  18. Abner

    Abner Well-Known Member

    Gee, I can't even imagine that kind of pressure! I see that you are a fellow CCU grad. Good school.

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