Need a fast degree, please help.

Yes. I understood "Bulimielernen" immediately, as soon as I saw it, in your post. A well-coined term. Very timely, as only last night, I thought that perhaps this form of "learning" and the so-called "sport" of competitive eating are not only similar, but two of the worst aspects of life in the U.S. The very idea of frequently binge-forcing down huge quantities of data, to shudder, heave and spew them out in rapid succession over exam papers is repellent.

(And as for competitive eating, that it resembles - that should be banned. No such gross over-consumption contests should be held while a billion and a half humans are regularly going to bed hungry. It's obscene. And probably a drain on the health system.)

It's no wonder that this type of academic credit is not accepted in Germany - or Canada - or UK. In fact, I don't know of any country outside of US where CLEP, DSST, Straighterline, Shmoop and their ilk are accepted. There has to be a reason.

So many degrees - so little education. :sad:

"Hard times in the Land of Plenty -
Some got it all and some ...ain't got any." (Omar Dykes - Omar and the Howlers)

J.

 

This form of obtaining credentials is literally one of the chief reasons this forum exists. It's no accident the term "Big Three" was coined by some of this forum's regulars. This debate is not new; for one, I have no issue with demonstrating learning through normed standardized testing. My ACCA journey is structurally similar, and let me tell you - not easy. I had easier time in some PhD-level classes (admittedly, in my field - but still).

Also, psst... CLEP is accepted by many institutions in Canada. Even University of Toronto. Naturally, it's not to the extent of Big Three, but that's what makes these unique even in US. Also, prior learning assessment and recognition (PLAR) is a trend and theoretically can bring you 75% of a diploma in any Ontario community college. My wife's Excelsior degree had 3 credits from Athabasca University - by exam. So...

 

I had no idea. Honest. I did read (here, I think) that Athabasca (RA and Canadian - sometimes considered "Big 4th") no longer accepts CLEP and hasn't for some years. There are very few places in Canada where you can write a CLEP, although it's a short drive to the border, for most of us. Between 1989 and 2005 I've graduated from Community Colleges here - more times than I care to admit. I did get 24 credits for some (then) 25-year-old OAC's the first time around, back in the 80s. I think the only other thing I was excused from was the otherwise mandatory "Dummy English." On the reverse side, I managed to get exemption from precisely two University courses for my CoCo experience. And they frowned ... it obviously pained them. :smile: And now the CoCos are giving up to 75% PLAR? I'm in the computer lab of a College right now - maybe I should go down to the office and see what I could get. No... I can wait.

CLEPs etc. are not for me. They're fine for others, I guess. What I don't like is what Mintaru described as "Bulimielernen", the suggestion it's fine to stick a degree together by hyperabsorption and regurgitation of up to 90 credits in a very short period. As I said, that's not education. It's "cram, regurgitate and forget." Nothing matters except the holy sacred diploma. After that, how the grad got there is a blur. I remember compiimenting a recent Big 3 Arts grad's original writing style, saying his college essays must have been interesting. His reply: "I haven't written an essay since High School."

It floored me. But OK, the guy writes well and in an interesting manner, so -- maybe...

J.

 

Mintaru mentioned and defined the word. He did not, in any way, suggest it was fine to stuff bushels of info down with a ramrod for frequent bouts of academic bulimia. Just to be clear, here.

J.

 

My take: Stanislav does not lie -ever. But schools (and other individuals) do. Other times, they merely misinform, by parroting what they believe -- maybe to Stanislav. Are you SURE? Can you point me to chapter & verse on this?

Reason I ask: I have been lied to many times by people in colleges and universities - administrators and functionaries mostly: the hegemony of (mostly) middle-aged men and women in severe black dresses / suits who control the off-books kitties and slush-funds etc. They will say and do anything that is to the school's financial advantage - e.g. "I know it will be the fourth time you've taken (and paid for) basic accounting --- but you haven't taken it here!"

I've been through exactly that kind of intransigence in Ontario - and I can't see these same people allowing CLEP credit. - especially when Athabasca doesn't, or so I'm told.

Doesn't surprise me a bit. Athabasca is RA and also has proper Canadian standing. What's not to love? And if Athabasca wants to give credit by exam (and charge plenty for it, IIRC) what's wrong with that? Not the same deal as CLEP - or they wouldn't do it. As I said before, AFAIK they don't accept CLEP.

Canadian Universities will, of course, accept a RA degree that contains CLEP-earned credits. That's different. An RA degree is just that - however earned. only exception - and it may be long-gone now: About 8-10 years ago, super-snooty (but good) McGill University would not accept any distance degree, no matter which school it was from. I hope that's over, nowadays - not sure.

J

 

I'm not positive - but to the best of my recollection, Athabasca's charge for credit by exam is one-half of the usual course fee. I imagine that's an average credit-by-exam fee of something like $450-$500 these days. Not exactly in the CLEP price range.
Don't get me wrong. I think Athabasca is a good school. One of my sons took courses there and had a fine experience. Certainly not low-cost by any reckoning, though. At least, not in recent years.

J.

 

You know, I thought I was sure, but after failing to find it - maybe it was AP, not CLEP, after all. So you're probably right. What it highlights, though, is scarcity of options Canada offers to working adults. It is not a good thing. Maybe YorkvilleU (where I used to adjunct) moving in aggressively for this niche may push established guys to offer more options. Phoenix did it in America.
Having said that, PLAR exists, at least on college level. Also, I'm pretty positive Athabasca was the cheapest place for us to get 3 credits in Accounting Information Systems, using challenge exam. Back then we went for the cheapest possible sources of credit, seeing how I was the stable paycheck of the family to the tune of under $900 a month. Fun times. But yeah, it was way more than CLEP.

 

Probably right? Rare occasion. I should probably celebrate. But I can't be bothered, as this topic is too full of the sad reminders of my mid-life college and university days. Takes the edge off the happy ones.

You've got that right! Not much better than the dark days of the 80s, when I used to think often of the United Negro College Fund slogan - "A mind is a terrible thing to waste." There were no racial confines to lack of opportunity here. You could have it instantly, no matter who you were. Same-old same-old for everybody. Not much different in some ways, even now.

I'm sure it exists. I believe in the Yeti too. Ontario Colleges keep PLAR and other credit recognition well-hidden, so they can extract more money. College credit transfer to University exists too -- but Canadian Universities will deny it wherever possible, to increase their take. I've been there... American Universities are far better in their approach. A really good school in NY State offered me two years "time served" and 50% off tuition, when I completed my first College diploma, in 1989. If I hadn't been working full-time and close to retirement, I'd have gone in a second. It was an easy commute - about 40-45 minutes. Instead, I worked out my last four years, retired at 50 and did my uni. in Canada.

And I don't doubt Athabasca credit by exam was the cheapest option. Pretty sad, when that's the least expensive way.

J.

 

J.[/quote]

 

"A mind is a terrible thing to waste."

J.[/QUOTE]
And a waist is a terrible thing to mind.

 

Transfer In This is not exactly well hidden.

No question here. Working adult options, like many other things, are better in US. Current administration, not so much.

Yeah, well nowadays CSU Global CBE would probably beat Athabasca challenge exams for most purposes.

 

Right. It's not. Much better-done than in my own experience. I guess that was then and this is now. Humber is a fine school. One of my sons, who is a teacher and has a successful writing background, went to Humber (by DL) recently, earning a writing credential. He has quite a lot of good things to say about Humber.

J.