Microversity

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Rich Douglas, Aug 29, 2020.

Loading...
  1. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    That may be the reason why Universidad Isabel I / ENEB was evaluated as a Bachelors although they had 3-year Bachelors policy being equivalent to senior year here in the US through ECE. At the same time, Universidad Isabel I stated that credits from Masters Propio degrees can only be used as undergraduate credits in their programs which would be another good reason to count ENEB as a second or advanced Bachelors rather than Masters. In theory, I believe all of these evaluators are right with their results. It just depends on how it is viewed as well as previous studies. I see why evaluators don't do pre-evaluations because they may come up with different results from the same company based on the same credential. Those who have completed an official Masters who then complete an ENEB Masters might get it evaluated as graduate credit (Graduate Diploma / Certificate of sorts) rather than a Bachelors degree.
     
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    If a student is good with writing papers and is good with using a lot of sourcing and visual graphics (I'm told ENEB bases its scoring on this heavily), then it might be a path with a lot of speed and very little trouble given its independent study model. For others, it may not be so smooth: I've read a lot of posts over the years here and at other boards where people discuss their dread for writing papers, part of it having to do with the amount of time it takes them, and so they're always looking for programs with the least amount of it needed. With the program's grades weighing entirely on a project-based model, it wouldn't be the right program for that type of student.
     
    Maxwell_Smart likes this.
  3. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I still find ECE's decision to be questionable at best. While the outcome is far from bad, them using the 3-year bachelor's excuse makes no sense because then almost every bachelor's degree from, say, the UK where 3-year Bachelor's degrees are common, would make every Master's from that region be evaluated as a Bachelor's degree. If they had just gone with a graduate diploma outcome I wouldn't have even questioned it, but their opinion as it stands remains questionable in my book, and I say that even more given their explanation was just long and convoluted. It just sounded like bull.
     
  4. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Good! A person who wants a master's and is too lazy to write papers doesn't deserve a master's, and I don't give a damn where it's from.
     
  5. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    You must be talking about that post from the other board with the ECE explanation after a student challenged his evaluation results. I read that. It was ridiculous. If you're going to use bullshit, at least respect the person you're bullshitting enough to come up with better bullshit. I lost some respect for ECE because of it. They know better than that.
     
  6. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    I'm just curious..... Which one would you all chose WES or ECE. Which outcome do you think is better, excluding the graduate certificate, an accredited Bachelors or non-accredited Masters?
     
  7. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    In general? WES has the most market penetration with schools, but they are the strictest.

    The RA Bachelor's outcome was good because it showed RA equivalency. Same with the grad diploma outcome. But if I had to choose one, I'd say the U.S. non-accredited Master's outcome from WES was the best one, because unlike the other options it lends the possibility--albeit slimmer than it would be with an accredited Master's of course... but more possible now as COVID has caused a massive downturn in enrollments so schools are thirstier and more lenient right now--of entering a Doctoral program.
     
  8. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I'm not sure I agree. An academic Master's designed to prepare you for a PhD, sure - writing is essential. A professional Master's though? The Capstone will likely involve a fair amount of writing but depending on the subject, papers may be less useful in validating understanding than coding assignments, networking diagrams, database schema (for tech programs) than writing a paper.
     
    RoscoeB and Rachel83az like this.
  9. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Sure, that's the case with tech programs or other types of programs where the demonstration of practical knowledge is paramount, but the point is more about what not wanting to put in the effort to write papers represents, especially when those people are pursuing the majority of programs where writing papers--and often--would be expected. Plus, when a person goes on a deliberate search for weeks or months to find programs that have as few papers as possible so they can avoid the workload (there have been threads like that), in itself it's an effort that contradicts the spirit of their lazy intent, and that amuses me.
     
    LearningAddict likes this.
  10. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    The funny thing there is, if only WES' evaluation were known, or if that had been the first one to drop, the detractors would've been taking victory laps over the non-accredited part. Personally, I like the other two the most just because they validated the program as equivalent to one that is regionally accredited. Having said that (and not accounting for the sequence that they each came in), the other two were the long drive to the goal line, the master's evaluation was the game-winning touchdown because now a major evaluator not only accepted it for evaluation but deemed it equivalent to a U.S. master's degree, flying in the faces of the naysayers who were so sure and smug that neither outcome would ever happen. Haha, yeah, this one was actually more satisfying than the Grantham-ABET moment and that moment was damn satisfying.
     
  11. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    If only they used the term "state-approved" or "state-authorized", it would be the best evaluation and most preferable one for everyone I would think. An employer who needs it would look it at more favorably than seeing the "non-accredited" part. In general though, considering employers are least likely to ask for a foreign evaluation, a Masters from a non-accredited school equivalency is fine for Master propio with the likelihood of being the best evaluation to our standards that ENEB and other non-official degree granters would look for from Spain for professional purposes since it is not designed to be used as a traditional degree for continuation to a doctorate anyway. The Master's title is essentially approved with WES evaluation.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2021
    Maxwell_Smart likes this.
  12. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    There are other respected NACES members that may provide a more desirable outcome.
     
  13. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I don't know about that one. I've rarely seen (and by rarely I mean like only a few examples) of master's programs where writing wasn't essential whether the program was professional or academic. I haven't seen but a few Master's programs where papers aren't a major part of the curriculum, and I can only think of one that is mostly exam-based, even that one still has essays built-in, and it's not an American program (Heriot-Watt). An example of something technical like you mentioned that requires more hands-on proof of ability is not the norm when weighed against the majority of available master's programs that are based around theory and the student memorizing for exams and sourcing for papers, so that may only serve as a one-off but not an all-encompassing example.
     
  14. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Well, that didn't seem to matter much in the end because they still tried to take their laps anyway. Some still post as if the evaluations never happened, lol. Now that's commitment.
     
  15. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Personally, I think the outcomes are already good enough. It took me a little while to come around but I've made it, lol. The only evaluation result left would be "U.S. RA Master's equivalent" and I have doubts it will ever happen because reading the evaluations and the literature put out by the industry, it appears they're all banding together as a united front (whether intentionally or unintentionally) to position the propio as something other than what its standing is in Spain. I tend to lean toward RFValve's theory on this.
     
  16. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    That's an interesting take, and a good one. Yeah, I think in some ways it may be unrealistic to expect the kind of greater doctoral enrollment traction some have been hoping for in seeing an RA Master's equivalency ever happen. I think the WES evaluation is as close as we'll see that get, but hey, we could get proven wrong at some point down the road and that's one I'll be happy to be proven wrong on.
     
  17. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    I'm not sure what the purpose is of hoping for something good to fail for people. Seems rather pathetic.
     
  18. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    I wrote more for a single LL.M. class than for any full semester of law school including final exams. No thesis, true, but expect to write a lot.
     
    LearningAddict likes this.
  19. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    On the one had I totally agree with the Bachelor's degree equivalent for Universidad Isabel I/ENEB being bull but when I think about the fact that ENEB has admitted people without a Bachelors and by not requesting transcripts, one positive about the ENEB courses receiving upper-level undergraduate credit with ECE is that one could potentially use ENEB courses as transfer into their first Bachelor's degree through Excelsior or TESU for completion.
     
  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Is that the standard operation? Or did some maybe just fall through the cracks? I wonder because I heard of some people bypassing the initial upload command when logging-in to a class for the first time, but then I read somewhere else that some people who did that got an email later on asking for docs. I read of one Spaniard who went through the whole program and finished, only to get screwed in the end when the diploma department asked for his qualifying documents and he didn't have them since he had no Bachelor's degree, lol. That had to hurt, but he did that to himself.

    From what I recall, both schools do accept NACES evaluations so there's a valuable option.
     

Share This Page