Men are From Mars - Women are from Venus - Degree Mill?

plcscott: "I looked at PWU's website and they require 120 credits for a bachelor degree. Are these not the same standards as other schools?"

John: American Journal (nationally syndicated television program) did an episode showing an undercover reporter who was able to buy a Master's degree from Pacific Western in nine days. That is not, I think, the same standard as most other schools.

But who knows. KCBS-TV in Los Angeles, a couple of months ago, had an undercover reporter approach three other California-approved schools with a story about urgently needing a Bachelor's degree in a week. They told me that all three agreed, for a fee of between $3,000 and $5,000. They only told me the name of one of the three, and it is not one with distance learning programs and has not been discussed here.

 

Ah come on Bear don't leave us hanging on that.

 

John, are either you or KCBS suggesting that these three schools were chosen at random and were representative of the CA-approved degree granting schools as a whole?

 

Bill: John, are either you or KCBS suggesting that these three schools were chosen at random and were representative of the CA-approved degree granting schools as a whole?

John: Wouldn't it be great to have time and budget to test this. KCBS apparently chose three that were relatively near their studio, and batted 1000. The only other data in this regard are when Spy Magazine did its 'sting' operation 8 years ago, in which their reporter (in the guise of a lawyer) wrote to 7 or 8 schools, all WAUC-accredited, and most or all California-approved, regarding a client who urgently needed a degree quickly, money no object. My recollection is that 100% replied positively, saying that 'we could work something out.'

The oobvious conclusion is such a depressing and, I'd like to think, unlikely one, but the evidence is unsettling so far.

 

Re: Re: John Gray...

I agree that it's sadism, but how could he not know what Penn & Teller would do. It's like the "not-too-bright" folks who go on Howard Stern or who call "Dr." Laura. Hello, folks, things are not going to go well.



Tom Nixon

 

From the information I have, this is not unusual. Selling degrees is fairly common practice with unaccredited schools. Yes, it is both depressing and likely to happen. Salespeople will be salespeople, and this is the type of people who are usually promoting this type of school or program - salespeople, not academics.

I recall that in Malaysia, a similar occurence happened, only it involved one of the heads of the education department there. From memory (and newspaper reports) the head of the department, in a sting operation, approached a salesperson from the provider representing the former Island school in Australia and asked about doing a quick Ph.D. After receiving some assurances that such a program could be 'arranged', the provider was promptly closed down by the department.

 

Amused, I am amazed and impressed with your knowledge about
education in Malaysia. Just out of curiousity where do you live in Malaysia and what profession are you in?

Peter Chin

 

If KCBS argues that the BPPVE process isn't successful in preventing serious abuse at the low end, then I'd have to sadly agree with them. But if the TV station tries to paint all of the CA-approved schools as scams and hopes to ruin their reputations, then I think that's irresponsible sensationalism.

 

Re: Re: John Gray...

Sadism? Maybe. But that sniveling whiner John Gray had it coming to him. Nothing good about that guy unless you believe that con artists should be elevated to near rock star status. Those Venus and Mars books are the biggest crock I've ever seen, and it never fails to amaze me how seemingly intelligent people can fall for this kind of crap. All Penn and Teller did was expose the fraud for what he truly is - a whining wienerish man who loves to rip off the general public for his own gain.

 

I don't live in Malaysia; just visit from time to time.I visit many countries of the world.I am a business man with a deep interest in serious education.

 

California Approved schools selling degrees. Very bad thing. Should only be done by regionally accredited schools.

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=13118&highlight=southern+and+university

 

You don't see a difference between a corrupt employee of a school fixing the computer student records and a school selling degree's for no work? Do you suspect that CCU was one of the schools that was involved? If an RA school was caught selling degree's for no work, how long do you think it would take for the regional organization to act? Do you think it would be quicker than the California government?

 

I suspect that their accreditation would be yanked instantly.

 

I think it would take a long time - probably the next re-accreditation review - before any action could be taken. Even then, if it only involved a handful of students, I believe no action would be taken.

Once achieved, RA is harder to lose than tenure.

What specific NCA or WASC standard would prevent a school from quietly awarding a few degrees to "special" students who make "contributions" to the school? I couldn't find one.

 

I think that a lot would depend on what actions the school administration took after the corruption was revealed. Did they act quickly to halt the abuse and to prevent its recurrence? If so, I doubt that accreditation status would be endangered.

But if it was the school administration that was selling degrees, as opposed to a corrupt clerk in the registrar's office, and if it was clear that nothing was really going to change, then I expect that the hammer would come down pretty hard.

At the present time, I believe that the WASC senior commission has one school on warning, another on probation and a third is in deep, having received an order to show cause why its accreditation shouldn't be withdrawn.

I don't know the reasons why and have no reason to believe that any of it has anything to do with selling degrees. But it does suggest that WASC isn't totally oblivious.

 

A handful of students manipulating the records, sure. But if it came to light that the school administration itself was involved in outright selling degrees, I think accreditation would be revoked very quickly.

 

Maybe if it was called "selling a degree". But but it wouldn't be called "selling" a degree. It would be called an evaluation of a "special" student.

Again, I can't find a WASC or NCA standard that would be violated by waiving normal degree requirements for a limited number of students.

I figured I would be challenged on this statement. But if anyone can find an NCA or WASC rule that would prohibit such a transaction, let me know.

The WASC Handbook says the Commission "discourages the awarding of earned degrees as honorary degrees..." but doesn't prohibit the practice. So Stanford could give someone a Bachelor's degree with no mention of the "honorary" nature. (I'm not saying the do but I'm saying under WASC rules they could.)

 

From what I've seen, in the rare circumstance where a RA school loses accreditation it is more often based on the belief the school has inadequate financial resources rather than academic or ethical issues. Like tenure, there are exceptions of course.

 

I've been told that RA has pulled accreditation from some schools in the past as has the DETC. I assume that the reason it happens so rarely is that it would generally mean the demise of the school. So whatever changes are required to fix the problem and keep accreditation are done so that accreditation isn't lost.

Honorary degrees are awarded for such reasons as you describe. I've never heard of a school's administration giving away or selling degrees except for honorary degrees. If we want to criticize accredited schools for lack of academic rigor, the worst case that I can think of right now is probably Martin Luther King's dissertation. The worst part of the break down in academic rigor happened after he was already martyred (IIRC). Should the degree be revoked for plagerism? The conclusion was no, which appeared that it might have been a pragmatic decision at the expense of academic rigor.

 

I haven't either. But it's not the type of thing that schools would chose to publicize. The mere fact that WASC took the time to adopt a policy on the matter leads me to believe it has happened in the past.