MBA programs that require entrance exams..

Vinipink,

Discrimination and selectivity are not even close to the same thing. There are protected classes in this country...race, gender, religion, ethnicity, disability, sexual orientation, etc. If someone was denied admission to a school for one of those reasons, that's discrimination. Denial due to GMAT score, that's selectivity. You may not agree with the selction process or criteria, but it is most certainly not discrimination, nor is it any form of discrimination.

Thankfully there are endless opportunities out there to attend schools where GMAT requirements are extremely rigid, where there are no GMAT requirements at all, or somewhere inbetween.

Pug

 

"Discrimination toward or against a person or group is the prejudicial treatment of them based on certain characteristics. It can be positive behavior directed towards a certain group, or negative behavior directed against a certain group. The latter is the most common meaning, i.e. negative discrimination. Discrimination on grounds such as race or religion is generally illegal in most Western societies, while discriminating between people on the grounds of merit is usually lawful. The latter is more commonly referred to as "differentiating." ( sound familiar as selectivity) When prejudicial discrimination takes place, it is usually described as discrimination toward or against a person or group of people, rather than discrimination between people or groups, which is simply the discernment of qualities and recognition of the differences."

Source: Wikipedia( I don't really like Wikepedia as a source but they had it as I saw it)

Differentiating: to constitute a difference in or between
to make unlike; develop specialized differences in
to perceive or express the difference in; distinguish between; discriminate

Selectivity:
1. having the power of selecting; tending to select
2. tending to select carefully; fastidious; discriminating

Source:yourdictionary.com

You can call it whatever you want, but take the hands out of your eyes, when you do a test that target a specific group of the population, what you call that? Maybe it sound politically correct by saying selectivity and not discriminatory, it is a loop hole.... At the end and in any event, I really don't care. I got the same results I wanted.

 

Thank you! I have to, many depend on it!

 

My thoughts

Chris - Here is my take:

First, research never proves anything (at least not if if it based on statisitcs). We support or fail to support hypotheses with statistics, we never prove them.

Second, research by the GMAT folks (which has some built in bias) in fact does show a statistically significant relationship with first year MBA grades. The R squared isn't perfect (perhaps .4) - but it is signfiicant. Some schools have a fomrula that combines GMAT socre with GPA that is slightly better than GMAT alone. Of course, in the long run - the GMAT is probably pretty useless at predicting success in life - if you can even define "success".

Third, schools that need a basis to say "no" and who have a large applicant pool, typically look for a standardized tool. The GMAT isn't perfect - but it serves the need of being a tool to deny admission to arguably weaker students.

My take is this - on a gross level the GMAT is a probably a worthwhile measure. If you have a 450 and you think you'll cut it at Harvard, chances are pretty good you're wrong. Further, if Harvard has a huge applicant pool they need someway to say "no" to a lot of folks. The GMAT works for them. On the other hand, to admit someone with a 560 over another candidate with a 550 is putting way too much trust in the tool

I realize that not gaining admission to a school that you wanted to attend can be rough. But I'd focus on other choices and move on.

Regards - Andy

 

Andy, as always, has good points and great advice!

 

My point exactly!

 

Hi!-

I thank you all for your responses, I really appreciate it!


I have moved on from this and enrolled in two courses with Chadron State. I am happy with my selection. I considered for a moment to study and retake the GMAT, then reapply to OSU...but in all honesty an MBA from OSU serves no more utility than an MBA from Chadron State.

It was mentioned above about the GMAT + GPA formula as an alternative that some schools use, that is exactly how I got into Chadron, thankfully!

Thanks!

Chris

 

Based on your VERY broad definition of discrimination, everyone must be included in everything. So are employers that require 5 years experience for a job discriminating against applicants that have only 4? Are coaches that have to choose 11 starters for a football team discriminating against those that aren't selected? Staying with the football analogy, what if the starting quarterback was selected based on how he performed in a series of drills? The coach might be discriminating against the guy that doesn't do well in drills, right? Are states discriminating against minors because they aren't allowed to drive until they are 16? Are adults discrimated against for not being given a license if they can't pass the test? In reality, they might just be good drivers. Are states discriminating against people that want to sit for the BAR but are not permitted to take the exam because they haven't graduated law school? How about the men and men that graduate from law school but fail the BAR? Are they discrimated against because they are not permitted to practice law? In reality, those individuals might make great lawyers. Are we discriminating against young people by offering discounts to senior citizens?

You might assume from my position on this matter that I do well on standardized tests. I don't. I have not taken the GMAT, but I will in August 2009. Whether I meet the minumum requirement or not, I firmly believe that schools have the right to require a minimum GMAT score. Let's just assume the GMAT requirement was removed from all schools and acceptance was fully dependent on a "passing" essay. Someone would still be left out due to capacity limitations. Is that discrimination? After all, there are individuals that aren't particularly good at writing and essay quality is very subjective. Where do you draw the line without discriminating? First come first serve? Isn't that discriminating against applicants that have worked very hard, test well, write good essays, and earned good grades at a tough school at the undergraduate level?

Pug

 

Ditto. The GMAT isn't perfect, but it is a worthwhile tool. Because it is not perfect, there are many other options available. Great post.

Pug

 

These analogies are terrible, my simple point was that you do not understand the concept of discrimination, and I clarified that for you. I am an accountant I don't assume anything. Best of luck with your test (you will need it).

 

That is a very low, rude comment.

 

Yes it was direct but not offensive. My comment was not address to you! If you need clarification in anything that you don't understand or have a fight, I would graciously point out to you as well sir. And I don't like my intelligence been insulted! Have a good day!

 

I fail to see why the analogies are poor. In every case I provided there is an element of selectivity, most of which were determined by a standardized test or criteria. I also fail to see why you have gotten rude. This forum is supposed to be one where we can share information and debate differences of opinion. Lastly, I fail to see why your employment as an accountant means that you don't assume anything. I am the Vice President of a large management company and I work with CPA's within my organization everyday. In addition, I have third party accountants crawling all over the office right now due to the end of the year audits that are approaching. In their personal endeavors they all make assumptions (they are human like the rest of the non-accountant world). In their professional work they also make assumptions, but those assumptions are thoroughly tested before a conclusion is reached.

I understand the concept of discrimintion perfectly well. I am tested on it annually due to my profession. I would argue that we both undertand the issue quite clearly, but you are allowing your personal feelings to interfere with objectivity.

I went back through my earlier posts to see if I might have said something on a personal level that provoked the rudeness and the hostility of your last post. I didn't see anything of that nature, but I apologize if I said something that offended you.

Pug

 

Chris,

Congrats! Please keep us updated (on another thread) as to what you think of the Chadron program. I was considering Chadron at one time, but I instead decided to go with a school that would allow me to do a good portion of the course work in a real classroom. Living in Maryland, that ruled Chadron out for me!

Pug

 

Just a reminder, everyone; let's keep the discussions in this section to DL issues, and leave the insulting innuendo for the Political Discussions section.

Thanks!

 

Best of luck Chris, the bottom line is that you need to be happy with your decision. You've done your due diligence and selected a best fit for your needs and situation. That's all that anyone can do.

 

Just for clarification, Vini is not nor does he claim to be a CPA.

 

Ok deal, but in the political section can get ugly!

 

I'll meet you in the political section at high noon!

 

Noted. I was just making the point that I work with CPAs and other accountants on a regular basis. I didn't mean to infer that he was a CPA.


Pug