MBA programs that require entrance exams..

I understand your point and position, not necessarily agree with them.

This was not pointed out by you, it was by other poster.

Agree

I am a Law Enforcement accountant, I can't assume anything, I have go to by the facts.

That is typical accountants behaviors, but to clarify and not your typical accountant.

I understand, but making assumptions that are not substantive with facts get people in trouble, arrested, and jailed.

I respect they way you see discrimination(you sugar coated it) and I have to disagree with the way you see it. It is what it is, no matter how you see it.

Again it was not you, it was instigated by other poster, no need for apologies, it is hard to offend me, I have a rubber skin, I understand that at times I can be sarcastic and a jerk(not on purpose), but I try to let all down in peculiar and diplomatic way. Anyway, we are cool!

 

I thank you for that clarification, I could done that without any help (I guess it sound sarcastic and rude here), but I appreciated your gesture and your intentions, but for the record, the only thing I claim in here is that I am " The Accounting Monster" as my classmates used to call me and what other things my signature lines indicates!

 

Vinipink Said "I respect they way you see discrimination(you sugar coated it) and I have to disagree with the way you see it. It is what it is, no matter how you see it."

Without getting into an argument, can you explain to me why my analogies do not qualify as discrimination in your mind but the GMAT does? I am particularly interested in hearing your opinion on those examples I provided where selectivity/discriminatory decisions were made based on test results: the quarterback being chosen because of superior performance in drills, the adult that is denied a driver's license because he did not pass the test at the MVA, and the graduate that is not permitted to practice law because he failed the BAR. To me, this is exactly the same as the GMAT. In all cases, performance on a standardized test determines inclusion or exclusion.


Pug

 

When you have universal elements and those elements are considered in a process and the equation of that evaluation, that makes the process fair. To illustrate, take my case as an example, I was turn down by one place that belong to an educational system and got accepted by the other, to give a more clear example, Miami Dade College is located in Miami-Dade County same as FIU, they turn down an applicant for admissions for police training, this same person applied at Broward Community College (located in Broward County, same as FAU), and got accepted for the same program, same standards, so was discrimination on the equation? you bet! not selectivity, same individual when back got a lawyer and sue Miami Dade College for discrimination and won, (you see my point), the same standard and elements should have been applied in the enrollment process.

FAU belongs to the same systems that FIU is (state systems) and they both follows the same rules for admission for state schools, however FIU fail an applicant (me) by one element, my point is they did not considered all the elements they should have and that is when they became discriminatory, they did not used the formula according to their admition process, they only judge the applicant(me) by one element out of 3. Could I have sue as the other individual? of course, I have a previous case that I could have cited with my selected lawyer and make my case, instead I moved on.

Your example are different is that everyone are level in the same playing field as everyone else(the rules are given up front and everyone are measured by these rules). You have 3 quarterbacks competing for the main role, these are three players that are already in the team(not competing to get in, but a main role) and if the other two do not make the number one position(rules are clear and fair, the top person get the job), they don't get kick out, but remain in the team as back up. For the bar exam and the DMV exam all these are in same level and condition, you study given equal conditions to the exam, and exam takers you pass your in (considering all the elements in the process). Again the results do not get interpreted by different place to make a determination, a passing score is a passing score, no matter where you go. They are not relying on third party to make a determination. The GMAT is one indicator, not all of them.

 

If you in fact were denied admission to a school because they did not follow their own published admissions procedures and/or criteria, I would fully agree that the school is in fault. However, I don't think you made a convincing argument against the GMAT, only that the school may have acted inappropriately by not following procedure. If a given school published its admission criteria and followed it correctly, then there is no foul.

We may have to just agree to disagree on the fairness of the GMAT. What objective criteria would you use for admissions where space limitations are an issue?

Pug

 

As you have failed to make an convincing argument that selectivity is not the same as discrimination. Honestly, I am not trying to convince anybody, that would fall in each individual to make their own mind. I just simply wanted to share an experience.

That was established that we disagree, in my eyes The GMAT is just a tool than soon or later will disappear as more universities in seeking more enrollments will discard this tool. The point is that there is lot of options out there, and no one should limit themselves by the status quote. Good debate though!

 

That'll never happen as it's a fundamental flaw with any business to try to be all things to all people. Some colleges base their overall status on their selectivity. On one end of the spectrum, you have the operations like UOP and NCU and Baker who try to provide opportunities for many people. Because of their relatively open admissions, they'll always be perceived by many as lacking status but they'll graduate many.

On the other hand, you'll always have the top 100 schools that limit admission on purpose. They'll never graduate that many but their status is their claim to fame (and more importantly, an endowment).

Two different business models. Both equally valid. Both needed in many ways.

 

Ahh! a conservative, I can remember when many years ago and many stated that online education will never happen, but it did! Challenge the status quote!

 

Not at all. I'm grateful for the explosion of distance learning. When I started my pursuit of higher education in the early 90's, all you had were operations like UMUC and their vaguely worded single degree at the time. Had the opportunities been present then that are present now...man.

But business is business.

You will always have focused and broad business models. Some people wouldn't touch open admissions schools with a ten foot pole. Others see the opportunities for quick payback for a properly accredited degree. Who's right? Depends on the perspective.

I'm an adjunct at two different universities now with an MBA and a CPA. For me, earning a NCU or UOP doctorate wouldn't work for me because I'm not sure I could handle another group of assignments. I am considering a B&M PhD, however, and guess how I'd pay for it in addition to my stipend? Teaching online...

On the other hand, if I wanted to maximize my adjunct opportunities (as in doing it nearly full-time), I think NCU is one of the smarter choices out there.

Just depends. You and I know an NCU guy could make as much as a full-time professor with the right number of adjunct courses. On the other hand, I'm not sure I always want to be an adjunct p/t. At some point, I'd like to retire from business and teach full-time.

Non-GMAT programs wouldn't cut it for that goal.

Different goals = different programs.

 

[/QUOTE]Non-GMAT programs wouldn't cut it for that goal.

Different goals = different programs.[/QUOTE]

Hi!

Hate to jump in on this, but I have a question...and since I am the original OP, I am entitled

Do you mean non-AACSB programs would not cut it for that goal?? The reason I ask is because I applied and was accepted into Chadron State, but they require GMAT and are ACBSP....thoughts???

 

For adjunct jobs? I don't know. My suspicion is that an MBA from a RA school with good experience and the right certifications would get you the occasional gig at various colleges. I've 'heard' that many online schools are requiring a doctorate to even teach as an adjunct but my recent experience locally (just landed one; have two more interested including a flagship state school) tells me that may not be the case with on-ground schools.

For F/T teaching positions, an MBA isn't going to cut it period unless you are some type of ex-CEO or something and even then it's a stretch. I know the AACSB has a way of having someone be considered 'professionally qualified' but the track record of those candidates, by AACSB admission, isn't strong at finding F/T positions.

I work in industry. Teaching P/T is a diversification strategy for me. 10-15 years from now, I'll probably want to retire from industry and teach F/T. Based on my research, I'll need an earned, residential doctorate to give myself the best chance of that. When I make the switch, my plan is to use the stipend plus my salary from various teaching gigs to maintain my lifestyle. It's all part of my plan.

If I wanted to keep doing adjunct work at online colleges and the occasional on-ground, I think the doctorate from an online school like NCU and/or Capella would probably be fine.

Again, different goals = different programs.

 

Hi!
I have another question...do you mean a resident doctorate or a doctorate from an online school?? The reason I ask is that an online doctorate from the University of Nebraska, which will have no indication of being earned online...is still a PhD from a Big-12 school...right. However, one can earn the same degree from UoP on ground...which degree will have the most utility at getting you that F/T teaching position??

http://www.unl.edu/gradstudies/prospective/programs/EducationalAdministration.shtml

 

Well, if you wanted to be an educational administrator, I would definitely go with UNL. That's not even a close comparison in my opinion.

But I'm interested in teaching business, not being the business manager of a business program (not that there's anything wrong with that). I suppose if you wanted to be a Director of Academic Affairs, or the Director of an MBA program or something of that sort, that degree would be just fine. It's probably very competitive if that's your goal.

But I don't think a PhD in Educational Studies is going to be very competitive if you're searching for FT positions in academe as a tenure-track instructor within an AACSB school of business.

Just my $0.02 and based on my research.

You have to go beyond the name of the school in some cases. Sure UNL is a good name but a search committee would also look at the degree itself and the dissertation. How would you spin educational studies as suitable for teaching finance or accounting?

That's an administrative degree in my opinion. Nothing wrong with that. May lead to a $$$$ gig.

Again, different programs for different goals.

/Edit: Hell, after reading their page more carefully, they even say that's a degree for an administrator candidate.

Look, I'm not knocking that as a career goal. MBA programs are usually run like a business and someone with an earned doctorate like the one above, good experience and an MBA may be a very strong candidate for the director of an MBA program. Being a director is its own career path, however, and isn't the same as being a faculty member.

For me, being a director would be too much like being a business manager, which I am now. Do I really want to spend my time obsessing over how to 'grow' an MBA program like I obsess over 'growing' my business. Probably not but to each his own. Some people would love that. I get enough of that now. LOL.

 

No way. If every school had an open (or near open) admissions policy, tuition rates would also have to even out. That will NEVER happen. If the GMAT ever disappears it will absolutely be replaced by some other testing criteria that retains a school's selectivity.

Pug

 

Best luck to you!