MBA overrated in future employment picture

The various kinds of doctorates can be confusing. Are you saying that there are at least three different kinds of doctorates:

• A traditional doctorate with a dissertation i.e. PhD, DBA, EdD, etc.
• A first-professional degree (doctorate) where some sort of professional licensure exam must be passed.
• A professional doctorate i.e. MD, JD, etc.

Or are the latter two one and the same?

 

Actually, I would put it like this:
traditional doctorate (PhD): theoretical research dissertation
professional doctorate (DBA, EdD*): applied project dissertation
first professional degree (JD, MD): no dissertation, professional licensure

* Our friends Tony Pina and Andy Borchers tell us that the dissertation for EdD and the DBA can be just as theoretical as the PhD dissertation, it just depends on the university whether the original distinctions between the research and professional doctorates have been maintained.

 

I think a good explanation is here: Types of Doctorates

 

MBA completely worth it!

I graduated 2 years ago from Saint Leo University's MBA program and it was the smartest decision I could have made. I received a job right out of school and their online program was easy and convenint. Employers take into account masters degrees not only as an example of knowledge but an example of a potential employees character and drive. You definitely need to look into it http://www.saintleo.com

 

The author of this article clearly doesn't know the difference between a professional doctorate and a first professional degree.

 

Here you go again, this is the second time you are shilling the Saint Leo University. Nobody has ask for any recommendations of where to study for the MBA in this tread. Yet, you come out the blue and stated for the second time that people should check this program.

 

how about this one?

Structure of US Education

 

I'm trying to be even handed here. The original poster is questioning the value of an MBA degree, especially if it comes from a "lesser known" university. As I read through this thread it seemed to me that Jess was simply saying that her MBA from a lesser known school has been rather valuable in her experience. Naming the school adds to the context IMHO. I'm not sure that I would characterize this as shilling. But that's just me.

 

Did you check her/his other treads?

It would be fine for example if it was put like this: " I went to so and so college and it work just fine for me, and if you have any questions PM. No argue with her/his position here. Anyway, it might be me, and perhaps the approach was innocent, but it was done before in another tread. Not relevant to the question that OP posted and came out of the blue I went to so and so and you should check them out.

 

Almost. German. Interesting reading - I didn't even know there was a stereotype about Americans and irony.


(Sorry - don't mean to be hijacking...)

 

Yeah, I'm with Vini on this one. There is definitely a shill factor at work with these St. Leo posts. I'm afraid posts like "well, you should check out St. Leo. It's my fave!" doesn't do the school any favors. The sad thing is the St. Leo program does look interesting.

We all plug our schools here, but we don't try to act as recruiters.

 

It's hard to imagine a successful economy where everyone's a manager. As companies suddenly find themselves in tough straits during the economic downturn, they might start to place greater emphasis on the people who actually pay the bills, who produce the goods and services that generate the company's revenue.

I was reminded of that idea today when I was thinking about Roche's purchase of Genentech. Genentech has always been kind of a scientist's company, where technical talent is highly prized, where the white-coats are at the top of the food-chain and where managers often have lab backgrounds and advanced degrees in the sciences. There's apparently some concern in the hallways that the company's sale will be accompanied by the arrival of a clique of (well-tailored European) suits, with white-coats being relegated to the status of hired help. (Roche strenuously denies that it intends to change Genentech's corporate culture.)

Interestingly, a report today suggested that a significant amount of company stock is owned by some of the top scientific talent. Now that they are suddenly flush with cash, they might start resigning and scattering to new biotech start-ups of their own.

 

re mba an advantage or not

Interesting reading the various comments,

1. clearly many jobs either require an MBA or prefer an MBA, so having one is better than not having one.

2. most HT departments will not check where th eMBA is from, i.e. it is either from a known school or not, i.e. all will recognize Harvard of course.

3. the type of school preferred depends on the job, and other factors, of course experience.

4. with continuing decline in american education system, the US Master's degree in business is becoming what a bachelor's was 30 years ago, and what a bachelor's is today, is like a high school diploma 40 years ago.

I have hired at all levels, i may hire an IVY league MBA to deal with investment bankers, but probably would not for an operations management position.

another observation, seems if one has a technical bachelor degree + MBA , the combination offered preferred in the business world.

I have yet ever to have anyone ask my GPA for my Bachelor or Master's , and in 28 years I have had only one question about my degree - form one employer who said he was impressed my school actually had real businessmen teaching there.

In summary, an MBA form any school better than none.

As far as European's go, their Bachelor degrees far superior of course, however taking MBA classes from a European ? Kind of like taking theology classes from a Marxist !

 

I would suggest you take a quick nap and wake up in 2009.

Non-US programs are leading the way now I am afraid.

http://mba.eiu.com/

 

Hi Dave, I took a look at the list and the U.S. schools ranked there do not match U.S. schools ranked here. For example according to their methodology the top U.S. business school would be Chicago University Booth School of Business which according to U.S. News would be Harvard. In fact these guys have Harvard ranked @ #12.

http://mba.eiu.com/index.asp?layout=2008rankings

vs.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/mba/search

Obviously they are using a different ranking criteria. I'm sure each system is rife with politics galore and good ol' boy back slapping, etc. just to keep things interesting.

That being said the U.S. has more programs in the top 10, actually the top 25 than anyone else. If you're in Switzerland and don't make it into IMD you're done as far as that list is concerned. If you're in the U.S. you have multiple options available. By my criteria that means the U.S. B-schools are still the standard. Besides, I'm not really sure how impartial a European press can be towards comparing their standards to that of the U.S. Just like I'm not really sure that the U.S. News are capable of being purely objective.

I don't put too much stock in either system but I do feel that when it comes to international business the U.S. is still the big boy on the block. When we hurt everyone hurts...the world economy as we have come to discover has been relying upon U.S. success for a long time now. That may soon change after this latest fiasco but as it stands now the U.S. seems to carry the brunt of the world economy on its shoulders. But I'm not sure if that started in the classroom or if the classroom started because of the observation and documentation of the natural trends of business in a successful system. It's a chicken and egg debate. []

Either way I think we give WAY too much credit to the correctness of these rankings when I honestly believe they have little to no merit in the real world of business. There are so many factors in play I'm not sure a ranking system could ever be universally applicable enough to be of any consideration to the majority of business Hi Dave, I took a look at the list and the U.S. schools ranked there do not match U.S. schools ranked here. For example according to their methodology the top U.S. business school would be Chicago University Booth School of Business which according to U.S. News would be Harvard. In fact these guys have Harvard ranked @ #12.

http://mba.eiu.com/index.asp?layout=2008rankings

vs.

http://grad-schools.usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/grad/mba/search

Obviously they are using a different ranking criteria. I'm sure each system is rife with politics galore and good ol' boy back slapping, etc. just to keep things interesting.

That being said the U.S. has more programs in the top 10, actually the top 25 than anyone else. If you're in Switzerland and don't make it into IMD you're done as far as that list is concerned. If you're in the U.S. you have multiple options available. By my criteria that means the U.S. B-schools are still the standard. Besides, I'm not really sure how impartial a European press can be towards comparing their standards to that of the U.S. Just like I'm not really sure that the U.S. News are capable of being purely objective.

I don't put too much stock in either system but I do feel that when it comes to international business the U.S. is still the big boy on the block. When we hurt everyone hurts...the world economy as we have come to discover has been relying upon U.S. success for a long time now. That may soon change after this latest fiasco but as it stands now the U.S. seems to carry the brunt of the world economy on its shoulders. But I'm not sure if that started in the classroom or if the classroom started because of the observation and documentation of the natural trends of business in a successful system. It's a chicken and egg debate. []

Either way I think we give WAY too much credit to the correctness of these rankings when I honestly believe they have little to no merit in the real world of business. There are so many factors in play I'm not sure a ranking system could ever be universally applicable enough to be of serious consideration to the majority of business practicioners out there.

 

true value of mba ?

i have an MBA , and I was lucky to get it from a school where many of the professors actually had business experience - I would value that businenss experience higher than some "prestige" school where professors had no experience or rather success in business.

I have hired for many managerial and staff positions , and I can tell you 90% of the time putting an MBA from a prestigious school anywhere near operations or a blue collar workforce was a mistake.

Usually most MBA programs teach some good technical skills in finance , teach students to think on a whole organizational basis which can be good, but often it is just undertanding the language of upper management - and the discipline to complete higher studies - that is the value : thus, often it is the fact of having an MBA rather than the school itself that can make a difference.

We used to have a rule , the better the school, the more time spent on interviewing .

But I agree with those postings , having an MBA , any MBA is better than none , and the online degrees afford many the opportunity they otherwise wouldn't have . And this excellent site gives good information .

 

I appreciate the time you took in responding friendorfoe, not sure I put enough thought into my comment to merit such a measured response. I was actually trying to be a little provocative, as I feel this board is a little insular in it's focus on US education. I firmly believe there is so much more out there, and non-US MBAs are getting better and better. The US schools realise now that there are other fantastic options out there, often more international in outlook, hence the flurry of joint programs we have seen of late. I have a lot of experience of working for American organisations and find that the ones who are really making it in the 21st century are those looking outside their shores for ideas and new markets/ways of doing business.

Having said that, the US still is the world's most influential country, and Obama has the potential to bring it back in vogue. I do not underestimate the power of the US and once my (UK!) MBA is finished I intend to get a US school on my CV (resume!) in some form.

Cheers,

Dave C.

 

I think I double tapped my last post...oops. Anyhow I think the UK has some really good programs, truthfully I would love a graduate degree in business from UofL and wouldn't think twice about interviewing an MBA from that particular school.


I also agree that the most successful U.S. companies are looking internationally; in fact you pretty much have to these days.


That being said I'm a hard headed, red blooded capitalist. I think government involvement in business should be kept at a minimum and thus I'm not a fan of the last...oh...three presidents we've had including this one but I digress.

I do believe that as international interconnectedness grows there will be a greater demand for business professionals in nations not now known for being very business savvy. China for example has vast industrialized capability, but read enough trade journals and you’ll see over and over that China is trying to move its economy forward, essentially speeding up the natural economic progression that some Western nations have gone through from largely agricultural to industrialized to a knowledge based society. What does this mean for the future? Likely that you will see a rapid demand for higher education from nations not usually associated with such. China, Taiwan, India (which is already happening), even the United Arab Emirates. See up to this point most nations have relied on two things from the U.S., the first is innovation and know how and the second is consumerism. The U.K. lead the charge into industrialization but somewhere after WW2 the U.S. lead the charge from industrialization to a knowledge based society. Most of our manufacturing capabilities are now outsourced overseas, yet we have a greater demand and supply for post secondary education than anywhere else in the world. It’s no mystery then that the U.S. has grown adept to swinging educational provisions towards the demands and evolution of our economy. Notice the sharp decline in liberal arts education towards trade specific offerings.

Eventually the U.S. will have stiff competition. Where Europe has gone wrong in my humble opinion is the resistance to outsourcing and restructuring of their place in the world market. That’s understandable as cultural differences between Europe and the U.K. and U.S. are not as close as some would like us to believe. The U.S. looks at employment largely as an individual responsibility whereas I’ve come to believe that in certain (unnamed) economies in Europe employment is viewed almost as a right. When that happens manufacturing will not come to that nation as they will not be the least expensive provider and the protectionism that occurs with the industry that is there will retard the growth of their system. This will lead towards stagnation in economic growth, innovation and therefore education.

Europe (not including the U.K. here) does stand the chance of being left behind in the global markets because of Asia, this means an increased demand for business leaders throughout Asia, ie many, many, many more MBAs will likely be needed. At that time I expect to see South America gradually fill the industrialized needs of the world, because no matter what, somebody actually has to manufacture the whatsits and doodads.

The U.K as far as I can tell seems to be embracing the financial and international business industry and could very well become a leading player in that game. They certainly have more of an international focus than the U.S. by nature of working within the European system for so long. But where the U.S. lacks international savvy (which is to say only somewhat) the U.K. seems to lack in technical innovation (to which there are also exceptions). So both systems have room for improvement.


Back on topic to the OP, the MBA isn’t overrated and the market is not flooded. There will be a sharp increase in demand for internationally and culturally savvy MBAs in the next ten to twenty years. I’d bet my shirt on it.


Ouch…I think I just fell off my soapbox.

 

http://www.cga-ontario.org/contentfiles/publications_promotions/statement/statefm09.pdf


Here is limited research on the value of an MBA.

 

Oops! At a quick glance of the attachment, I thought it was Bernie Madoff on the front cover for a second!!