Made in China!

Discussion in 'Off-Topic Discussions' started by chrisjm18, Jun 13, 2023.

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  1. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I just bought a new laptop from HP. Like my Samsung Galaxy 23+, the laptop was made and shipped directly to me from China. Also, in October 2022, when I stupidly (for a few days) thought I should switch to an inferior smartphone (iPhone 14 Pro Max), that too was shipped to me from China. Like many people, I thought things (especially smartphones and computers) were made in China because of cheaper labor. However, the real reason is that the U.S. lacks the skills to produce electronics at the demanded rate.
    • In 2012, Apple CEO Tim Cook noted that it is not a matter of bringing back consumer electronics manufacturing to the U.S. It is about starting it since it was never really here.
    • In 2017, Cook noted that China is no longer the low labor-cost country. He said the country stopped being that way many years ago. Instead, he said they go to China because of the skills and the quantity of skills in one location.
    • China has the most undergraduate sciences and engineering degree graduates globally.
    • In 2019, Apple was United Airlines' biggest customer, buying 50 business class seats from San Francisco to Shanghai daily.
    • Foxconn, the world's largest electronic manufacturer, couldn't succeed in Wisconsin with making LCD screens, and Motorola in Fort Worth, Texas failed at making smartphones in the U.S. after only a year.
    Check out CNBC mini-documentary on Why the U.S. Fell Behind in Phone Manufacturing.

     
  2. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    I work in this industry (electronic manufacturing) and can, as sad as it might be, confirm this. To 100%.
     
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  3. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    “I must study politics and war, that our sons may have liberty to study mathematics and philosophy. Our sons ought to study mathematics and philosophy, geography, natural history and naval architecture, navigation, commerce and agriculture in order to give their children a right to study painting, poetry, music, architecture, statuary, tapestry and porcelain.” - John Adams

    On the one hand, it sounds like he's describing the more agreeable part of the Tytler Cycle:

    [​IMG]
    On the other hand, Adams's grandchildren and great-grandchildren were pretty successful, so... hmm.
     
  4. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Yes, yet another dangerous consequence of the pell mell pursuit of profits in a global free trade market. China also heavily subsidizes its export manufacturers at the expense of its workers. Such a communist thing to do, too.

    But...I bought a hammer drill Saturday. Nice handy size, exceedingly well made and at a couple Benjamins pretty cheap. Made in China of course. The Chinese mercantileist policies end up subsidizing me at their workers' expense.
     
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Chinese manufacturers have zero ethics. They have been making unauthorized copies of Western designs for decades. Here's an article on what they've done to car markets. https://www.drive.com.au/news/chinese-manufacturers-sued-over-copying-designs/

    It's everywhere. I'm a budding watch collector and something I like but will never own, because of the cost, Is a Swiss Jaeger-LeCoultre "Reverso." It's $12,000 new, and up - WAY up, to around $49K. yet I can buy a Chinese exact-looking copy, with "Jaeger-LeCoultre on the dial, in the correct size and type, for around $260. But you can bet that I won't.

    Years ago, there were a lot of "Chibsons" - Chinese fake-Gibson guitars. You could get a fake Les Paul over the Internet for $250. A good-looking fake, of particular models that nowadays sell for $3,000 to $6,000 here in Canada. And if you said it was fake, you got:
    "What the hell you mean, is not Gibson? Is say Gibson right on headstock!" N-o e-t-h-i-c-s w-h-a-t-s-o-e-v-e-r.

    Even to get $2, there'd be chicanery. I bought a set of 4 drills marked "Stein-Stahl-Holz" - Stone-Steel-Wood. I thought, "Aha, German precision for $2! Bargain" Not so. Fine print -- Made in China. Unscrupulous Chinese have ruined many markets. Yet there are very few ways to avoid them.
     
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  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Men's clothing is another case: everything that was made here is now made in China. There's a chain where I used to buy Canadian-made clothes, at reasonable prices back in the 80s. The quality was so good I have a couple of jackets bought back then that are still great-looking and get good comments.

    The chain has been taken over by a larger American one now - and nothing much is made in "Not China." In suits, only the very top range is not made in China - those suits are made in .... Indonesia. I wore one of those 80s jackets into that store a few weeks ago. the sales people were amazed at the quality and durability of my 40-year-old duds, Canadian-made, that had come from their store. Right. "they ain't makin' em like that any more." An era has passed, unfortunately. A really good era, in that business. We can thank China AND ourselves for that.
     
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And don't get me started on Walmart!
     
  8. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    There are several fine established German piano makers whose labels Chinese builders purchased. So now if you buy a "Rittersdorf" or whatever it's made on the Pearl River Delta. Understand, this isn't theft. Not at all. But the sale of such pianos under "false flags" is a bit troubling. Then again, many fine old European piano makers now have their "second string" pianos made in China so is there really a difference?

    Not that the Chinese can't build a decent piano! They can. Pearl River and Young Chang pianos are native Chinese brands and have a pretty good reputation. Sure! Yamaha has the Chinese build some of their pianos and the factories have gained the skills and equipment so why not?

    I'd rather they sold their pianos under honest labels is all.
     
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  9. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Hah! Young Chang is a Korean label but built pianos in China.
     
  10. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    This is on my mind because there's a lovely used 6 foot Young Chang for sale at a very attractive price near me. I've played it several times and almost pulled out the credit card but...I don't really have room for it and the escapement has a rather decided presence. Quite playable though and my excellent Kawai digital just doesn't do what the Romantics need a piano to do.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I'm glad that I now have eight guitars and none of them were built in China. Most WERE built in Asia, though; the only one that wasn't is my Fender Telecaster. That was assembled locally - mostly US parts I bought here and there, mounted on a Canadian Black Walnut body I bought locally, and a Fender California-made neck, with all the righteous decals, that was sitting in a Canadian warehouse. My others:

    One, a nylon-string classical, was made in Japan 57 years ago. It was given to me new, in 1967. Some years after, only the highest-quality Japanese models were built in Japan. Many from Korea, Indonesia etc. I have two Yamaha guitars, one new, one used, both made in Indonesia. Great instruments, despite modest price.

    I have a very low-price Korean solid-body electric I rescued from a discount store, with the greatest Maple neck ever. This model, I found out, was built from Korean-made parts and assembled in NYC. The electronics, however, were junk - so I had a genuine Fender pickup installed, that I'd come across. What a difference! Work, parts and instrument only came to $250 and I consider it VERY well spent.

    I also have a thick-bodied Ibanez jazz archtop I named "Miss Danielle" that I bought used, from Brian, the tech who put together my Telecaster and modified my Korean special. My lovely "Miss Danielle" was made in Indonesia. I also have a used Epiphone (now owned by Gibson) Les Paul Junior (yes- they're entitled to use the Gibson model names) - also made in Indonesia.

    Yes, I'm definitely happier with my "Not Chinese" instruments. I'm sure part of the difference is purely psychological -- but what isn't?
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2023
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  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    My take: WWJD - what would Jerry (Lee Lewis) do? :)
     
  13. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Buy a Steinway. What else?
     
  14. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    And no, it isn't all hype. I've played two Steinway grand pianos over the years.
     
  15. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    But I don't have a spare hundred grand.
     
  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Used ones can be less. But in this case even "less" is still like a new car.
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    @nosborne48 You might - or might not - be interested in this article.: "The Subspecies Of Pianists, Or, What Jerry Lee Lewis and Beethoven Share."
    https://www.npr.org/2011/11/11/142240743/the-subspecies-of-pianists-or-what-jerry-lee-lewis-and-beethoven-share

    Possibly, the author might have been thinking of Mr. Lewis as a "combustible" from the time Jerry Lee was said to have set his piano on fire, during a concert.

    I think Jerry Lee Lewis was a horrible man. A serious junkie and an avowed Christian racist, which is an oxymoron to me, but not to Mr. Lewis or a number of others. But he certainly raised plenty of hell as a piano player. He and his two well-known cousins, Rev. Jimmy Swaggart and Mickey Gilley were known as the "Three Piano Pickers" of Ferriday, LA where they grew up.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2023
  18. datby98

    datby98 Active Member

    It is quite true and they wildly follow the rule of the jungle. Since India overtakes China's cap as the most populous country, I hope Chris's iPhone Pro XX will be cheaper. (I am not an iPhone fan.):)
     
  19. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's interesting. Most of the clothes I buy are made in Bangladesh, Vietnam, or Central America.
     
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I like to buy clothes made here. I'm a pensioner, so the only way I can do it is in thrift shops. I know clothing labels as well as I know food labels.

    Unlike food, the trick is to buy stuff from the 90s and back that originally cost way more than I could pay. Sometimes I get stuff from other countries too. My prize is an Italian "Linea" sports coat - no wear at all. Originally sold for $1700 in a fancy Toronto shop. I paid $2! I have three Harris Tweeds woven and tailored in the UK - either worn seldom or not-at-all when I bought them - for around $10. New ones go for $400 or so Canadian, these days. I got a very nice Colombian jacket too. You don't see them in regular stores, here. I read up and it's from a really good chain - 5 stores - Bogota, Cali - all large centres. Maybe they supply clothes to the Medellin Cartel guys, I dunno. Nice. Very.

    Whenever a rich doctor or lawyer my size dies, and his Mrs donates his duds - I'M THERE! :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2023

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