Louisiana Baptist University

Perhaps instead of speculating about the reasons he chose Louisiana Baptist University you could politely email him and ask.

 

Rick Walston's opinion of LBU

Hi
Rick Walston is entitled to his opinion, but he himself runs an unnaccredited seminary. And at one point even it was called a diploma Mill. Mr Walston has interesting articles on accreditation and defends unnaccredited schools which are legitimate. However is opinion of LBU is low. One must look at the quality of graduates of LBU. Many christian professionals like Roland Martin, and musicians who have significant experience and talent and who wish to earn a College degree which is affordable seek LBU. The proof is in the pudding!!. If Lbu has talented artist writers etc enroll in a degree course it by virtue of their skills. LBU accepts prior learning assesments, and award credits for courses taken at other accredited schools, They follow guidelines of CAEL. Council for adult and experiential Learning. And they have their own coursework books. I compared some of their specially designed workbooks with some online courses example the Open Courseware of MIT. The workbook has substance in assignment, reading , research etc.I did learn a lot. One has to experience of LBU especially Non traditional education. I wish and pray LBU does get accredited and then all false allegation against may be over.

MyrrhMusic

 

New Doctorate at LBU

While i don't think this is a move toward accreditation, LBU is now offering a Doctorate In Religeous Education through the Seminary. I would hope that they might re think their PHD from the univeristy in a couple of ways. First, if they are going to continue not pursuing accreditation, then make language a requirment to graduate (Greek and Hebrew). If they are going to pursue accreditation then drop the PhD and make it a Doctorate of Biblical Studies or somthting like that. There is also the continued updating of their faculty with accredited degrees.

That being said, i was blessed to have attended the school and know that they are sincere in their desire to do distance and on campus education well and care about their students.

 

Recent developments in LBU

Hi
I got a mail from the Christian education department, it says Jonathan Falwell will be their commencement speaker at the 2010 graduation. LBU has always attracted high profile guests as commencement speakers. LBU credits can be transferred to Liberty University, La Tourneau University, Wheaton College and Dallas Baptist University. Even Bob Jones University accepts LBU degree for their Masters programme. Of course it is on a case by case basis. Many LBU undergraduates have secured a place in some good accredited schools . Also one can transfer credits to Shasta Bble college and complete a degree in education etc. All this indications does not sound like a Diploma Mill.

MyrrhMusic

 

I know this is a fairly old discussion, but I would like to add my two cents. I am currently attending Sangre de Cristo Seminary in Westcliffe, CO and expect to graduate with a MDIV in 3 semesters (I also have an MA from an accredited University). This seminary in not "regionally acredited" but is accredited with ARTS. In the early nineties, I attended Southwestern Baptist Theological Seminary for two years and later Logsdon Theological Seminary for one year. I have found Sangre de Cristo Seminary to be even more rigorous than both of the other seminaries I attended, especially with regard to the study of Bibical languages. I am considering working on the ThD program at LBU when I finish here. My personal feeling is that "regional accreditation" is pretty meaningless in many respects. What is most important (to me) is the work put into the program by the student, what they take away from it, and how it best prepares them for the Kingdom of God work. Most "regionally accredited" institutions that I have reviewed are "crazy high" with their tuition costs and I think most of them also have sacrificed great doctrinal integrity in the name of being "academic." While I don't support the idea of a degree mill, I think purposely refusing to play the "accreditation" game has its good points. I understand that Bill Gothard is a graduate of LBU and while I don't agree with everything he has taught in his institutes, I think he is a very godly man and if LBU is good enough for him, I'll be glad to give it a look.

 

LBU has its supporters. I would say it is not in the league of the ARTS accredited seminary you are attending (ARTS seminaries seem very solid).

On the plus side, it is on the list of seminaries owned or endorsed by the BBFI (denomination), has a small campus, attracts well known commencement speakers, and has alumni who have performed well. CNN host Roland Martin is a graduate. CNN Programs - Anchors/Reporters - Roland S. Martin
I believe judging by the site and things I have read on line, they are trying to strengthen their programs. There has been lots of praise for the way they operate (integrity).

Drawbacks include lack of accreditation and too many profs with highest degrees from LBU. They need more faculty with accredited doctoral degrees for credibilty.

 

Should add that they have a great web site (well done). LBU has flaws but I do not think it is a mill. Let us know how things go for you David.

 

Sorry to respond to an old thread. I would appreciate your comment more if I had not been in an NCU doctorate program. I never found the quality all that great from this RA accredited school. I must say, the NCU writing course I had was excellent, though. For most classes, you read a book, write a paper, make sure that the paper cites a few external sources other than the textbook. In some classes, read a chapter, write a one page paper on each question at the end of the chapter, turn the paper in, and no one really reads it to provide any substantive guidance.

Why would LBU have to do anything different if they are successful in their arena? They seem to have their teachers go out into the world and start small Bible colleges in the mission field to help train other pastors and missionaries. They are engaged in other work and I even know of one of their grads that came to my area to start a Baptist church. It started with 3 people and now has over 100. That's very real success if you ask me. I just looked at the PhD in Bible, or it might have been Biblical Theology. I did see it had two language courses required. Greek and Hebrew. Maybe they recently updated the requirements since you last looked.

Accreditation costs a crapload of money. I just don't see it all that worthwhile for many programs. A program may be very credible and successful without it. As soon as any school pays for accreditation their tuition jacks up double...or more. The value then decreases, in my opinion(look at all these newly minted DETC programs that were once called mills here. solid examples of what i am talking about. i think their value is suspect with tuition being so high now.). The cost of education MUST factor into value these days. More education, at any cost, is not the answer it once was. Times have changed. A school would be better served by keeping tuition low and building a better reputation. That would be value in my mind.

 

Yes, I think there have been a number of comments on this board about the alleged low quality of the work in the NCU doctoral program (and its lack of customer service). This would be a reason why you would probably go there to get a doctorate but not necessarily one that you will use to become a prof in an accredited State University.

You are correct there are probably a few (VERY FEW) unaccredited programs that are equal in quality (but have less utility) than accredited programs. However, there are also a LOT of diploma/degree mills. There are people that post on these boards and do not seem to understand that reading a Max Lucado book as the doctoral text for a course is problematic (something similar was required at an unaccredited school with a name like Liberty but not the REAL Liberty). I recall someone on another board defending Bible University (or some similar name) that had a seven page Systematic Theology text (was online). They went to great lengths to point out that anything more was overdoing it and that the substandard amount of work required was just right, etc. This is where accreditation ensures some minimal level of quality.

In any case, LBU may be similiar in quality to NCU. LBU is obviously much cheaper but also has a lot less utility.

 

Probably good to add that regardless of the level of coursework alleged at NCU, there were a few people here who posted about the tremendous level of work and stress in the dissertation phase (which I realize is not necessarily equivalent to rigor).

The other thing to consider is that the NCU degree is RA and that means while some people may snicker as they do with U of Phoenix degrees, it still IS a regionally accredited doctorate. On the other hand, I saw the web site of a guy who earned an LBU doctorate. He used to list it but has removed it now that he is working on his accredited South African PhD. I doubt he would have removed his NCU doctorate (if he had one). That is no knock on LBU. It is just that for whatever quality is in the LBU degree it is still unaccredited.

My advice to you is to check out some SA doctorates or even (if you do not mind the subject matter) the Aspen EdD (around 7800 for the program). In both cases, you will earn an accredited doctorate and will not have to feel funny about displaying it on your web site, business cards, etc.

 

My thinking has changed on the subject of accreditation over the years. If I ever found a program I was really interested in, and was affordable to me, I'd do it and not be very concerned with accreditation. Accreditation MAY mean some kind of minimal standard but that doesn't mean an unaccredited school would not have any decent standards. (I hear you loud and clear on the PhD dissertation that includes reading Max Lucado. That's not a substantive program.) Interesting to me would be something with some substance, related to my interests, but affordable...because I think even a PhD from any school isn't worth all that much unless one teaches.

I can't tell you how many PhD's I work with who are not working in their field. They often tell me if they had it to do all over again they would have not pursued it. In fact, many of them don't include the PhD behind their name, or have it on Linkedin, because it might put off potential customers. They want to appear on the same level as the average customer. Probably the government and academia give it more airplay.

The only utility I can think of that a doctorate would give someone is a leg up in teaching. Other than that MAYBE government. This has been discussed over and over on the forum, too. In my field, a PhD is pretty much useless if you don't teach. There would be no utility in it. Even if you had one no one is going to sit around and call you "Doctor". I can't think of a single PhD I work with called anything other than their first name. My area seems to collect PhD's due to various reasons but typically they leave their areas to get a certificate in something else, like programming, so they can work.

 

I gave serious thought to an M.Div. From lbu, I even donated a non refundable 50 application fee to them! I was leaning their way because of cost but I stuck out what I think was probably the more rigorous and deffinately more costly option Librty Seminary largely due to the advice of my former friend and sometime mentor the late Dr. Ken Gangel who once told me, after asking his thoughts on lbu, "their cataLogue looks ok and they have some prominent graduates BUT you cannot cover a graduate degree, especially a doctorate..."

Your graduate graduate degrees tell a lot about younand where they are from matters. By cover he meant you may not even get into another higher program of study based on that degree and even if you do it still "defines" your bsckground.

I think under the right circumstances lbu is the right option, though.

 

Very interesting thoughts. Yes, LBU is an option for many students and has some credibility and well performing graduates BUT as you note, you really do not want to top off your academic career with an unaccredited degree. I think that may be why a pastor's site I looked at showed he dropped mention of the LBU doctorate when he began a South African doctorate.

There are certainly far, far worse unaccredited schools to go to.

If you get an MDiv from LBU you really need to try and get into an accredited DMin program or something to top that off with an accredited degree.

It should be said there are some denominational seminaries that are unaccredited but very credible (some AARTS bricks and mortar seminaries and a Lutheran seminary I can think off of the top of my head). One of the tell tale signs with them is that the faculty have accredited degrees, recognition and so on. LBU falls below that as the majority of its faculty have degrees from LBU or other unaccredited schools.

 

Why? Is a Doctor of Philosophy degree some kind of sacred semi-religious document now that a school can't have such a degree designation...and only certain schools that are RA are allowed to award? DETC went the route of NOT doing PhD's. That's a fact. One day, I bet they will start them again, though...if some DETC school hasn't already been doing it and I am just not aware of it. Some are still teaching out their PhD's, too.

 

DETC only accredits doctoral programs that are professional in nature which is why they have EdD's. Many (most) EdD programs are little different than PhD programs but the nature of the EdD made it acceptable. That is why you have schools like Trinity in Indiana offering EdD's in theological subjects.

LBU would have a long way to go to achieve accreditation. I imagine that their faculty alone would disqualify them from TRACS consideration (also need library and an on campus program with TRACS which IIRC they do have). Not sure whether the holdings in the library are large enough. My recollection of the coursework would seem to indicate a need to step that up as well as hire more faculty with accredited degrees to be considered by TRACS.

DETC might be an option (do not require library).

I am not sure LBU has much interest in accreditation since they have a niche market and some credibility in that market. Do we really need more accredited seminaries pumping out doctorates? Would it be worth the investment for them and the need to increase tuition. Obviously, it would be a huge blessing to graduates.

Please note, that I do not intend to be negative to LBU. I know of VERY happy graduates who love the school and staff.

 

The answer to your question is "Yes." Is there a follow up question?

 

I would concur on that thought. A Ph.D. is supposed to offer a "stamp of approval" on an individual with regard to having the ability to research at the highest level, think critically at the highest level, produce critically assessed research, teach, etc. I am a Pastor.

Why does a Pastor need a Ph.D.? I get why some people desire them but get a Doctor of Biblical Studies or a D.Min. honestly at an accredited or at least reputable school or just live without a terminal degree. Its dishonest, even if its not intended as such, to get a Ph.D. with rigor less than equal to that of many Pastor's M.A.'s or M.Div.'s

This is especially true if you only got it in order to stay ahead of the pack.

 

I see a lot of people commenting about whether a degree should be a PhD, or if it should be listed under a Doctor of Biblical Studies, or Doctor of Ministry. I understand the issue of accreditation and prescribe to the idea that people should graduate from a school that has some kind of standards and that is reputable.

The point is that we can all have our opinions on these matters. Just like when people debate the issue of national v. regional accreditation. But, the thing that comes to mind is that Louisiana Baptist University does seem to have somewhat of a respected name and that people may question why it is not accredited, but we are talking about a religious institution.

I would state that for ministry purposes it seems to fit the bill. Louisiana Baptist University also has the deal with much of its staff having unaccredited degrees. But, it has been around for a long period of time, and it has been recognized by a former Governor of Louisiana, who at one time declared a specific month "Louisiana Baptist University." And, there is a commentator on CNN who has a degree from this school as well. So there are some legitimately good points to ponder.

 

They do have several respected and even prominent alumni. They are the right choice for many people and credible.

 

And you are saying that when a governor declares a month for a university, that that makes the university a good one? Sheesh.