Looking for a DL Doctorate of Management Program

I apologize, I missed the 1.4... I thought 1.7 was the lowest.

 

And that may very well be... I cannot attest either way to the quality. All I have stated, which caused Ikey to flip out, is that US News says that Nova has one of the worst academic reputations in the nation and that my personal experience regarding the perception of the school bears this out.

Perhaps the school is a diamond with a bad reputation.

 

I agree that the rankings are generally against DL schools... that is why it is more useful to pick and choose relevant criteria from the aggregate rankings. Nova, as most sucessful DL schools, should fair poorly on staff/student ratios but academic reputation and teaching quality assessment are meaningful measures (incidently, the ranking for Nova I was refering to was not aggregate but only for academic reputation).

 

I am unaware of any UK DL MBA which is anything but extremely reputable (UK standards are high).
Interestingly, an arguement could be made that the DL degrees from AMBA schools are not equivalent to the campus degrees whereas some non-AMBA schools are. This is because AMBA will not currently accredit schools that have fully integrated their campus and DL programs. This is why HW, which was AMBA accredited, decided to not continue their accreditation and integrated their programs.

 

Actually, I have never said Nova's computer science programs are good... I have no knowledge either way.
Neither have I said that any of Nova's programs are substandard.
All I have said is that, in investigating their business programs, every single person I spoke with who was knowledgeable about the school and/or the business programs had little positive to say. Most comments referred to the schools poor academic reputation (as somewhat substantiated by US News) and others referred to a lack of rigor in the DL MBA program.

 

Ikey picked and chose his information carefully. I have a lot of info on HW so I will correct his misrepresentation.
Some community college rejected a HW degree to teach because it was a foreign degree.. i.e. the issue was not respective of HW but of foreign degrees... Oxford would not have done any better.
I have been told by a 3rd tier US University that HW (as a Royal Charter University) would be a fine credential to teach in their MBA program.
Dr. Bear has commented in the past about the 1 credential evaluation service that has an issue with the MBA (quite funny actually). He has also commented on the acceptance of the degree by the remainder of the evaluators, a vast number of the top US universities and in virtually every case of sponsorship with fortune 500 (and 100) companies.
Incidently, the courses are worth 6 credit hours at TESC (personal experience).
HW is ranked second tier by FT, although it is rank #1 on TQA (above Oxford). EBS has been rated as one of the top 30 in the UK (top 100 in the world) by the economist and was accredited by AMBA (until they decided to integrate their DL and full-time programs).
I have solicited opinions on the school from two business deans of good schools (Canada/US), two business associates from Scotland, a management consultant (big-5) from London, an associate in the US who worked in London several years ago and several business leaders on my recent business trip to London... without exception there was universal endorement that it is a solid program/school.
Oh yes, I have had course paid for by some of the top companies in the nation (and others)without even the slightest issue.

 

I have "tried" HW on numerous occasions, including my recent trip to London and have received unqualified endorsements every time.

As far as options... it depends on the individual. HW definetly has some "qwerks" which would make it inappropriate for some people. However if you take the DL MBAs available and filter based on the common constraints of flexibility (i.e. residency, etc.), quality and cost... you end up with HW definetly being one of the best options available for many people.

 

Let's go with this for a moment, lewchuck. Do you think that because someone is a dean they are above being petty on occassion? Right, in a pig's ear. It does happen.

I know of a case where the dean of a business school in San Antonio had previously to that post, applied for a position as dean of business in California. He did not get the job. It was a school where the university was okay, in his opinion, to be dean of, but not to accept teaching candidates from there on the faculty where he ended up, although another comparable, if not slightly better school across town from him, had no such objections.

Dean, schmean, they put their pants on like everyone else. And they are not above being human.

Unless that dean has a wealth of documentable experience to back his words, it is a mere opinion, worth about the same as the guy's who comes by and empties your trash.


jim

 

What I don't like, and probably others as well, is that they are NOT your stories, they are someone else's.

Where is your personal story, your personal anecdote? Why, they are certainly missing rom your post.

Impersonal anecdote = rumor or innuendo in your case.


jim

 

I am beginning to realize that, like racial bigots, there are educational bigots. An educational bigot, like their racial counterpart, will find plenty of evidence to support his/her view and will selectively screen out anything which runs contrary to their biased view.

Okay, lewchuck, how come you went for the bottom feeding position on Nova and ignored other comparable evidence to the contrary from the same report in the same source?

Whoops, did I just call you an educational bigot? Moi? How does the shoe fit?


jim

 

I have to agree with much of what Lewchuck says. Nova seems quite disinterested in enhansing its academic reputation. If I were applying for a Ph.D. program today, a school's academic reputation would be one of my most important concerns.
I don't think it's good enough for apologists to claim that US News is just being biased. Nova, as well as Fielding, Union and Saybrook, of all the DL schools in the U.S., could make the grade to 2nd or 3rd tier if it marketed itself differently. Pheonix and Jones could not.

 

My intent is not to be a Nova apologist. I am only trying to challenge the naked prejudices against US DL on this board. If a common man is biased against H-W and Nova, I don’t expect people who claim to be well informed to think like a common man. Once again, a GOOGLE search will show that Nova doctorate holders are found everywhere in the academia. If Nova is as bad as the DL bigots have said, then only very few Nova graduates will be accepted by US academia. But this is not the case.
It is important to note that bigots in the wider society look down on both foreign and US DL. I have no doubt in my mind that DL will be accepted eventually by the common man.

Ike

 

The analogy was not meant to discredit H-W MBA program. In fact I believe that the program is of good quality. The intention was to allude to the fact that the perceptions people have for H-W MBA program vary and that you connot arrive at a conclusion based on what one or two people have said.

Ike

 

My point is that it's up to Nova to change the way it is perceived through changing the way it markets itself outside of Florida. NSU does little to enhance its image outside of Florida. For the past 10 years Nova has offered strong DL programs. But it remain saddled with the image it projected during the earliest days. Today NSU is much more than just a cyber school, but outside of Fl that's how they are perceived!

 

We are having credibility problem here. Lewchuk wrote and posted on 4/28/2001 at exactly 8:36 PM that:
"I think Nova stands out in the areas of IT and Education in the sense that it provides legitimate opportunities to people in areas which may not be otherwise available. However, I fail to see why anyone would pursue a DL business credential through them (i.e. have looked into both MBA & DBA... unimpressive)."
The URL is http://www.degreeinfo.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000585.html

Ike

 

There is a difference between saying that a program is good and that it provides a legitimate opportunity which may be otherwise unavailable.
Example, Accounting is a discipline where it can be troublesome to pursue a foreign degree... GAAP/licensing issues. I don't think Golden Gate is a great school but it does offer a US, non-resident Masters in Accountancy (very rare). In other words, it is not a great program but it provides a great opportunity.

 

I have contacted with some who have completed HW MBA program and they talked why they joined the program. HW program does not require GMAT, no assignments and papers (?), studying materials by yourself and then take final examinations (just like taking professional examination). It they fail, resit and resit and ....the examination (of course, it may need to pay course fee after 2nd resit). Some may complete the program by 1.5 years through part-time study and they choose it because it is one of the most easier and quickiest programs. Business graduates, especially those in UK education system, know what is going on! The quality is far more important than quantity.

 

Some off-campus (not DL) MBA programs in Asian countries are conducted through the private and profit-making agencies. Complaints are made from students from time to time that there is NO library for papers/assignments writing, teaching is come from local tutors (not much qualify), responsive is slow. Of course, many UK programs are quite successful in those countries. In other words, it doesn't mean that the qualification from a particular country MUST be good, some may be good and some may not be good.

 

USNew's rankings are undergraduate rankings. The whole "tier" system doesn't address graduate programs.

Fielding and Saybrook are not even mentioned in the rankings because they don't have significant undergraduate programs. UC San Francisco and Rockefeller University are two other schools that USNews' "tier" system overlooks, despite the fact that both have produced Nobel prize winners. But they don't have undergraduates.

So if Nova is to rise in the USNews "tiers", it is going to have to emphasize teaching undergraduates a lot more than it does now. And it will have to teach them in the traditional manner that USNews expects, in highly selective full-time programs with high SATs and high school class standing, coupled with low drop-out rates. No more of this stuff about offering part-time programs for adults.

If Fielding and Saybrook are going to make second tier, they will have to create some undergraduate programs in the first place. My suggestion is that rather than trying to do that, they should simply not concern themselves with inappropriate measures of their place in the academic universe.

As far as Nova is concerned, they are in a bind. They could completely revamp their undergraduate program, or alternatively abolish it altogether. Either way they no longer provide a valuable service to the community. But if by doing that they can please some magazine editors that have somehow made themselves the most powerful figures in American higher education, perhaps it would be worth it.

 

What? Nova is hardly in a "bind." And the editors of magazines and newspapers are not very powerful. Oh, they may have some influence on the admissions process for high school graduates trundling off to college, but their impact on the world of DL is minimal.

These rankings have absolutely nothing to do with the usefullness of DL degrees. Nothing. The vast majority of accredited colleges and universities are indistinguishable from each other in the eyes of employers. There are just too many. Employers may look favorably upon a degree from a school with a national reputation, or one from the local area with a good regional reputation. But that's about it. Beyond that, it would be surprising if they did anything more than look up the school in a reference guide. (My company uses the HEP Guide, for chrissakes!)

Don't you get it? IT JUST DOESN'T MATTER! If a job applicant in, say, Memphis, Tennessee, brings in an MBA from either Capella, Nova, National, Strayer, or George Mason, it just won't matter. It might matter if the applicant graduated from, say, Memphis State or the University of Arkansas. Or Notre Dame, Harvard, or one of the other nationally known schools. But the rest of this stuff is arguing for arguing's sake.

Rich Douglas, with more than two decades of HR experience in the public and private sectors, and an MBA from a school no one's heard of outisde of California.