LL.M. in International Law

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by rdl1051, Feb 14, 2024.

  1. rdl1051

    rdl1051 New Member

    Hi guys,

    Found this interesting option in Belgium

    It is from a accredited/ state recognized European university. Please check this in your country!!!

    • Recognized master degree, subject not important or enough relevant work experience in this field
    • Fees: 3500 euros for the whole program
    • Duration: 1 or 2 years
    • Program is entirely online
    • Registration is open until 30th of June
    • Program starts in September, maybe also in February but only did a quick scan

    general information about the university:


    Information about the program:


    The brochure:


    I have no connection to this university, but am trying to finish a masters degree en then enroll in this program
    MaceWindu likes this.
  2. Courcelles

    Courcelles Active Member

    “When completing this program, you will obtain a ‘University Certificate’ entitled ‘LL.M. in International Law‘ and worth of 60 ECTS credits, from one of the oldest and best university in Europe. In addition to the personal development value of the certificate, the 60 ECTS credits earned can be used to pursue other academic programs in Europe, subject to approval by the committees responsible for the programs for which you wish to register at a later date.”


    So, not a degree.
    MaceWindu likes this.
  3. Messdiener

    Messdiener Active Member

    Great catch, @Courcelles.

    Very sneaky on the part of Louvain. What could one, legitimately, do with a Master's Certificate of Laws in International Law? Surely, not practice law!
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    It's like the dodgy "Certificates in MBA" and "DBA certificates" that abound offshore for the unwary these days - and DBAs from Poland, where the degree doesn't even exist. I hate it when established, hitherto respectable schools dabble in this.It's a sad day when a "Master's" is not a degree.
    Hang it over the fireplace, or in the den. Or in your cell, if you're caught using it.
    Mac Juli likes this.
  5. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That seems comparably disagreeable to the "mini-MBA" programs available from universities in the US.
  6. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    "International Law"? It can be summed up by "The strong do what they can and the weak suffer what they must." Nothing new since 416 BC. - Why do something with 60 ECTS?
    Johann likes this.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thucydides, right? Yeah, we learned about him in high school -- would have been 1957-58 for me. Good quote, Mac! :)
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think it's way more disagreeable. Even casual observers usually realize that the Mini-MBA is clearly not an academic degree, just as a book titled "The Portable MBA," although it contains valuable information, is clearly not a path to a degree. With these certificates, that carry academic credit (ECTS) it's not so obvious. It can even get past some experienced eyes, as we just found out.

    Mini-MBA - a joke. LLM certificate - sneaky. Big difference.
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yeah, this is bogus. I'd bet my Dr. of Psychiatry certificate from Oxfraud U. on that! :)
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    60 credits is right for a master's degree. But it is clear that the school issuing the credits isn't issuing a degree.

    This is like propio, only you don't get the unrecognized degree in the process.

    A degree isn't just a certificate. It is a title awarded by the school. I don't "have" a PhD. I AM a Doctor of Philosophy. I AM a Doctor of Social Science.

    This slippery distinction they have in there is just wrong.
    Johann likes this.
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed! Really wrong. Chicanery is not expected from a well-reputed, centuries-old school.
    This University (Louvain) was founded Dec. 4th, 1425. Nearly 600 years ...and now this!
  12. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    This is a different of extent, not of kind. You think that hiring managers necessarily know what a mini-MBA is (or what it isn't) when there's a university name attached that they recognize?
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes. Definitely. It's their business to be aware. Knowledge of the qualifications on which hiring decisions are based -- and those which mean little or nothing -- is important. If the hiring managers don't know this - they don't know their job and THEY shouldn't get hired.

    Good little test -- show a hiring manager candidate one of these mini-thingys. Ask them what they think. Hire them or don't, based on the response.
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2024
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That might make an interesting dissertation topic, actually.
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Freely given. You may use it if you wish. :)
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I was never a "hiring manager." I was, however, back in the day (70s) pressed into service sometimes, as a "firing manager."
    I was OK at that. As far as I know, nobody I fired ever came back. :)
  17. tadj

    tadj Well-Known Member

    Let’s take a closer look:

    First, the length and number of credits. Is it appropriate to compare it to a mini-MBA training program? You tell me.

    This LLM has 60 ECTS credits, which is equivalent of a full year of study in Europe, two semesters in total. There are completely legitimate one-year Master’s degrees with 60 ECTS throughout the continent, although a two-year Master’s will have double this amount of ECTS credits (120 in total) and tends to be more common. In Poland, the shortest Master’s degree usually starts with 90 ECTS (3 semester ones – 1.5 years) and the standard one has 120 ECTS (2 years). But in Sweden (as an example) and other places, you can find many one-year (60 ECTS) degrees at the official Master’s degree level, which are also recognized throughout Europe. So in terms of credits alone, there is nothing that necessarily precludes it from being a Master’s degree. Now what about the award itself? It is a degree, or a certificate?

    This one is a bit tricky, since the website provides insufficient information to make the call. We need more info here. Belgium has what are known as Advanced Master’s degrees.

    Advanced Master’s Degree

    “Students who hold a Master’s degree can go for Advanced Master’s degree programme. Advanced Master programs are worth a minimum of 60 ECTS credits and are rounded off with a Master's thesis, which constitutes an important component of the assessment process.”

    The university sems to offer the LLM as an Advanced Master’s degree, but this appears to only be available in “partially on-campus” or “full on-campus” format: https://uclouvain.be/en-prog-2023-drin2mc It does include the same MOOCS as the certificate award, so is it the same award as this? More info is required to make the judgement.

    Is this (https://llm-uclouvain.be/about/) the same program? Is the certificate equal to the Advanced Master’s, or something else entirely? More research is required by our team.

    I can only make a brief comparison to a Polish institution which issues Advanced Master’s Belgian awards in Poland, mainly this one;


    Here they would not signify a Master’s degree, but I am not sure how other countries would receive it.

    “The diplomas awarded by the College of Europe are recognized in Poland as diplomas awarded by a foreign higher education institution, no matter whether the diploma has been issued in Bruges or in Warsaw’s Natolin. In this case, the place of studies does not affect the status of the diploma.

    The above signifies that the level of education and obtained qualifications are assessed in the light of Belgian law. The diplomas awarded to graduates of the College of Europe (including the graduates of the EIS academic programme taught at Natolin in Warsaw) confirm the completion of a one-year programme of studies in the Belgian higher education system, at the level of advanced Master’s, worth 66 ECTS-credits.

    In Poland, advanced Master’s diplomas obtained under the Belgian higher education system can be treated as diplomas of completion of post-graduate studies. This does not signify, however, that they are diplomas of completion of post-graduate studies in the Polish system of education.” (https://www.coleuropenatolin.eu/study/erasmus-policy-statement/)
    Messdiener likes this.
  18. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Appreciated, but I already have my own acre to plough. :D
    Johann likes this.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    My take:
    (1) You have a lot of experience and knowledge in these matters, tadj, which I respect and thank you for.
    (2) I say NO legitimate academic award should be as difficult to interpret as you have indicated this one to be.
    (3) The equivocation that surrounds it makes this thing cloudier than the summit of Mt. Everest.
    (4) 600 years notwithstanding, if the University can't say clearly what it is / isn't, in the up-front blurb - no sale.

    If this thing backfires, as I think it well might --- University of Louvain will carry the can for it -- for ANOTHER 600 years!
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2024
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This whole thing reminds me of what I've long called a "Jag Bhaduria Degree," after a former Canadian politician, who falsely claimed an LLB. (Int) from the University of London.

    "Bhaduria claimed on his resumé to hold a degree of "LLB (Int.)" from the University of London, which was understood to mean a Bachelor of Laws degree in international law.[7] Bhaduria claimed that the initials instead referred to "intermediate", stating that he held a certification of intermediate completion from the University in 1976 but did not hold a law degree, and insisted that he never claimed to be a lawyer.[13] However, the University reported that it did not grant such a certification, and that Bhaduria had withdrawn from the program."

    A degree that isn't. From here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jag_Bhaduria
    Section: False Credentials.

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