Let the torture begin!!!

Actually, DTechBA, your version doesn't seem to be correct. McCain's ban applies to prisoners in US custody or control:

www.economist.com/opinion/displaystory.cfm?story_id=5139141

 

You misunderstand...

CURRENT US law makes it illegal to deal with these people and that is what I am talking about. Again, that is my point, some of you guys are debating an issue without the historical context you need to adequately debate it.

We still haven't defined what torture is and you guys want us to ban "it". In some peoples eyes playing loud rock music to deprive sleep is torture.

McCain's bill says this:

“no individual in the custody or under the physical control of the United States government, regardless of nationality or physical location, shall be subject to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment.”

I can walk down the street and interview 50 people and get 50 variations of what this means. To a Muslim, being interrogated by a women is degrading so it could be torture under this definition. Heck, you're a lawyer this is a point I shouldn't even have to point out to you. Is speeding banned or do we bother to state what speeding is?...

 

Well, as to defining it, since it is the President who is seeking the CIA exemption, I should think it reasonable to use the President's lawyer's memorandum definition. Remember the Alberto Gonzales memo? Not exactly comforting, that.

 

COME ON NOSBORNE, WHAT SAY YOU?

 

Oppose torture? Then answer this, please?

 

Re: Re: Re: Just tell us this

This goes straight back to my "simple rule" from the 1970s and 80s. "If a country practices torture, then it is my enemy - if it does not, then it probably is my friend". Something very easy and to-the-point in terms of moral guidance for our foreign policy.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Just tell us this

You've shared classrooms only with friends? You've shared work space only with friends? The US can share the planet Earth only with friends?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just tell us this

We're not talking about classrooms and friends here.... We are talking about whether a country endorses and practices state sanctioned torture. If it does, then that country should be an enemy of the U.S., which represents freedom and the pursuit of happiness, and where torture has no place in any dialogue of public policy except to abhor it and those nations that practice it.

 

Um, DTechBA, gkillion, and decimon,

Will you please either refute the evidence I presented of the President's clear meaning, that he wants clear authority to torture whomever he wants and whenever he wants, or admit that the cock-and-bull explanation you offered is itself a distortion of the truth? I am not willing to play the Bushie game of refuting one unfounded attack only to be faced with another one. Let's complete the thought, shall we?

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Just tell us this

We'd have had no allies in WWII.

 

Allegation is not evidence.

Give a citation.

The crow-and-moo is all from you.

Give a citation.

Please do. The allegation is yours so back it up.

 

Did I miss something? Where did you present evidence?

 

Follow the link I provided to The Economist. Unless, of course, you think that it is just another example of the "liberal media".

Look, I'm done here. The President may not appear to you as a monster but a growing number of Americans are disowning him, and with good reason. That's what counts.

 

Clearly labeled as opinion and devoid of fact.

If only there were a liberal media. There is a Liberal media but no liberal media.

Yes, you struck out.

 

And he never answered my question either.

 

Nosborne:


I agree with you 100% Don't bother trying to convince the Baby Bush followers. To be honest, who cares what they think. The polls show the masses are backing away from Bush. Even many in his own party are turning on him now that 2006 is approaching. Hell, even his buddy Scharwnegger didn't want to be seen with him here in California.

Take care,


Abner

 

I don't care about Bush. I do care about reality.

 

Not uncommon at all. Clinton was shunned by many Dems seeking election or reelection in 1998; Bush was shunned by some GOP candidates in 1990; Carter was by many, many Dems seeking election or reelection in 1978, etc., etc., etc., etc.