Let the torture begin!!!

Only in the hearts and minds of the Left.

Elections in Afganistan and Iraq...who's voting in these elections if they don't think it's a good idea?

These people literally risk their lives when they go to the poles. Hell, Americans stay home if it looks like rain.

So what is your answer to the question I asked earlier? Keep a guy awake for a few hours, or another 9/11? Which do you choose?

 

Anyone who thinks torture has not existed throughout the history of the world by all peoples of the earth, are living in the Land of Oz.

Anyone who thinks torture is not acceptable in some situations where national security is at stake, human lives are at risk, and American soldiers are in jeopardy, are simply trying to implement a Utopian world in a fractured civilization of greed, inhumanity, and a cavalier disregard for human life.

Now, I abhor torture. However, let me ask this question to all who see no acceptable reasons for torture:

"If your child or spouse were buried and had only hours to live, are you telling me you would not torture or approve of the torture of the perpretrator to reveal the victim's location?"

 

You are buying in to what may be a bogus argument, Jimmy. The open question is what is being called torture. Not to be Jankoistic but if it's less than what is endured at the Fire Academy then we have another bebauched term.

 

So VERY interesting!

What a study in human psychology! How quickly the degreeinfo political hacks (yes, I know - you right-wingers all think I'm the only one) have separated into the following camps:

1) the PRO-torture camp (primarily Bush supporters)

and

2) the ANTI-torture camp (primarily liberals and Democrats)

VERY VERY interesting! But not at all surprising.....

 

Exactly my biggest problem with the Left. They know that what is going on is not true torture. But...they will say it is in order to undermine Bush's war effort. They care more about embarrassing Bush than about telling the truth or winning the war.

 

Re: So VERY interesting!

Substitute the word "torture" with "America", and you've got it about right.

 

Or bebopped or something.

 

The question is rigged. You've down-shifted torture into sleep deprivation; marginalizing our becoming less humane.

We're becoming what we hated in our last nemesis.

 

Re: So VERY interesting!

The two camps are those who selectively read the Sun-'n-Fun for what they wish to believe and those who want more information.

 

Re: Re: So VERY interesting!

Listen to yourself! The last "good war" we fought (WWII) was conducted against horrible regimes who used torture as part of their public policy. Yes, one of our allies did too - Stalinist Russia. But they were also our enemy soon after the war, if not during.

In Korea and VietNam, we stumbled, and wound up supporting dictatorships that had as their sole distinguishing characteristic a willingness to be a client state of the U.S. against populist movements (that admittedly used torture, as did our client states).

Finally, in the first Persian Gulf War (carried out by the FIRST George Bush, whose only mistake was not to finish the job), the U.S. again took the moral high ground, and was clearly fighting a bestial enemy (Saddam) whose conduct in Kuwait was peppered with multiple incidents of torture. There was no discussion at that time that the U.S. needed to use torture to counter these baboons....

And we still don't. We need to stick to our guns, keep the moral high ground, and wear down our enemy by decimating their power bases while winning the hearts and minds of the Islamic world - a tall order, but one that will be impossible if we stoop to the same level as our despised enemies of old (and of present).

Anti-American? BS!!!!! The only anti-Americans here are the ones who are willing to sell the very soul of our democracy to squeeze five more names out of the latest low-level terrorist held in secrecy in Guantanamo.....

Khan is right - there is a fine line between marginalizing bestial behavior and actual bestial behavior itself.... we are well on our way to joining the hallowed ranks of Stalin, Hitler, Mao, and Saddam himself....

And who's going to stop this trend? How many of you honestly think that George W. Bush, the pampered son of a fine President, has the guts to do it, or even the moral fortitude to realize that torture is WRONG?????

 

One more thing. If we aren't torturing anyone, why is Cheney pushing for the CIA exemption to the defense authorization bill?

from UPI:
"GOP Sen. John McCain of Arizona has attached an amendment to the Defense Authorization bill which would specifically incorporate the Geneva Conventions' ban on cruel and degrading treatment of prisoners into U.S. law. But the vice-president and -- according to Time magazine -- Undersecretary of Defense for Intelligence Stephen Cambone, have been lobbying against it on Capitol Hill, and the White House has threatened to veto the bill if the language is included. "

 

There is no evidence that we have become less humane than sleep deprivation.

And if sleep deprivation is not torture then what is the point of this thread?

 

Look, I get it, unless you're standing in the room when a CIA hack hacks at a person, you aren't going to believe it.

But, you also seem to be leaving out all the sick little sex stuff that went on (those pictures were released). I can't tell you how f*cking embarassing that is to me as an American.

 

Embarassing

Embarassing...I have a feeling we have not seen the worst yet. Stay tuned to the news in the next coming days.

 

Re: Re: Re: So VERY interesting!

How do we win hearts and minds when we have people like you manipulating the facts about what is going on in our prison camps? There is no evidence of anything remotely close to torture happening.

What about the people who sell the safety of our citizens and our military for political gain?

You left out Pol Pot. Contact Durbin's office for the complete list.

Well, he has the guts to make a tough decision and not be afraid to suffer the consequences. Something that never happened in the previous administration. He also has the guts to worry about the future of the country, instead of just where his next BJ is going to come from.

 

But how can you claim that stuff is happening when you're not in the room either.

Sex stuff? That's torture? Gimme a break.

 

I believe John McCain. He has no reason to lie. He has access to classified material.

Sex stuff? That's torture? Gimme a break.

No, the torture is the torture.

The sex stuff is embarassing, beneath us, juvenile, and enough to put a gun in a young mans hands against us.

But, once again, I believe John McCain, (talking to FOX):
"Sen. John McCain said Sunday that the U.S. was wrong to "torture" al Qaeda 9/11 mastermind Khalid Shiek Mohammed, saying that torture shouldn't be used against suspects even if they have extensive knowledge of terrorist operations planned against the U.S."
from here: http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2005/11/6/113204.shtml

 

I believe Senator McCain too. And I've said enough on this thread already - so I'll stop my own torture of the conservatives on this board, who have wittingly or unwittingly lined themselves up as in favor of the U.S. adopting and legalizing state torture against our enemies.

First foreign enemies, next domestic? How many of you would like to torture me, for example, to get me to switch my vote to the GOP next time around??? LOL!!!

 

Carl,

One more thing......

Can you site any examples of authorized torture by the CIA or the military?

 

You have things bassackward. There is no call to adopt or legalize anything. The call is maintain the status quo. A call to maintain what has been in effect and was in effect under past regimes such as Clinton's, for instance.

Unnerstand? The proposed legislation would be something new.