Lance Armstrong

Guitarmark2000, Armstrong took EPO. Everyone knows that. Everyone also knows that EVERYONE else did it too, so they competed in equal conditions. Of course, I wasn´t there, but I think professionals don´t dispute this at all. I don´t know if you´re familiar with this cyclist career but this is not the first time he faces this type of accusations. He has lost in fact a couple of cases in court trying to defend himself from this accusations. A close aid dennounced his purpotedly fraudulent activities about a year ago in a book. Besides Armstrong was/is closely associated with Dr. Michele Ferrari, a person CONVICTED for using dangerous and fraudulent substances on athletes. Apparently he has developed great masks to disguise all traces of drugs in urine and blood, and (as sad as it sounds) he has become a specialist in the art of deceiving controllers. Only now that new analysis techniques have appeared, the "fraud" has surfaced. So there is at least some circumstancial evidence, dont you think? Still, I believe he is the legitimate seven time Tour of France winner, whether the French admit it ot not.


Regards

 

Way back when I did my MSc in analytical chemistry, my thesis was on the quantitative analysis of barbituates in urine using GC/MS. So I like to think that at one time, at least, I knew a little bit about some of the issues regarding drug testing.

With that said, have these latest statements on doping been supported by the science? Are there clear, objective and unambiguous test results that have been confirmed by other methods or with other samples? Or is this a matter of interpretation or possible lab error? I have not been following this story that closely, so I don't know the answers.

 

A chemistry whiz?

 

That was pretty good. But the best part was when I spilled 500 cc of urine right into the guts of an Apple IIe that I had programmed to control the instrumentation. Theorizing that at this point I had nothing to lose, I unplugged it, rinsed out the inside with distilled water and put it into a vacuum drying chamber. To my great surprise, when I took it out and plugged it back in two hours later, it worked like a charm. I wonder if I should have told Apple about that as a testimonial.

 

The labs seem to offer no doubt. They have B samples of urine he gave them in the preambles of the 1999 Tour. That year he tested negative. They kept a B sample and froze it. Now they have retest it using new techniques and have discovered that 40 out of 70 cyclists had EPO traces in their urine samples. One of those was Lance Armstrong. Of course, if he had been French they would have acted differently, but they chose instead to purposedly leak the news to an associated newspaper (LÉquipe and the Tour organization belong to the same holding) only to discredit this man. This is the type of garbage we are dealing with. BTW, in 1999 EPO was unknown to the organizers of the race, and wasn´t an illegal substance. Experts claim it can enhance an athlete´s performance by 20%. And Armstrong swears he never used them.

 

Well...Timex had "Takes a lickin' and keeps on tickin'" so Apple could have had "Takes a whizzin' and keeps on plizzin' (pleasing)."

That face on the screen in their old Big Brother ad; can you imagine him...

 

Those Froggies, are seemingly at times more nationalistic than Japanese with their eyeballs rolled back in thier heads in 1941 during the "Greater East Co-Prosperity Sphere"

If Lance was doping you would have seen that N02 bottle hanging off his back like George Jetson!

Doping...hahhahaha, with that pedal pumping machine?
Combining an already fast heart rate with dope would have only further increased a maxed out heart rate, equaling a nuclear thrombosis in the first tour de froggie.

1-800-CRY-BABY

What some magazines will do to fluff up a few pages, heck, chasing a Mercedes Benz through a tunnel and popping a bunch of flash pictures in a drivers eyes; enabling a wreck must now be off limits?

Too bad the French were not the first in the creativity department with sawing off heads on the internet, however they did lop them off some time ago....and I personally assign very little respect for either group.

 

I'm a long-time completive cyclist. As for Armstrong, I don't know. There are certainly some suspicious events in his past - primarily his association with Michael Ferrari. He did use EPO, legitimately, as part of his cancer therapy. So...

It's certainly possible for both to be true: he dopes, and the French hate him and are out to get him.

If I put aside my suspicions, I have nothing but respect for what he's done. However, he is not the most gifted American cyclist ever. That honor belongs to Lemond. Lemond finished third (or fourth?) in his first Tour, which is astounding. Armstrong couldn't finish his first Tour.

Were it not for the hunting accident (shot by his brother-in-law, not father-in-law) and having to appease Hinault and his French team in 1985, he might have won six or seven Tours. He was the strongest cyclist in 1985, but let Hinault win. He won in 1986. He missed 1987 and 1988 because of the hunting accident and illness. He won in 1989 riding on one of the weakest teams in the Tour, without any help in the mountains (something Armstrong has not had to worry about - the domestiques for Postal and Discovery are paid as well as stars on other teams, with the sole intent of getting Armstrong to the last climb.). And he won again in 1990. He certainly would have been the favorite in '87 and '88.

Merckx is the hands-down greatest ever, however. His record is unmatched.

 

Yes, that Tour of 1989, when he got rid of Fignon (a colossal ass***) the day prior to reaching Paris is unforgetable.

Indurain was also held back a couple of times (at least twice) to help his then leader of the team, Perico Delgado, who only won the Tour in one occassion. That´s how this sport is.

To me what is dificult ot believe is that the man didn´t crack not even once after he came back. I have seen a lot of them breaking, Hinault, Indurain, Delgado, Fignon, Ulrich, Lemond, etc... Yeah, he always had the strongest team, the best climbers, and a great director, but still, it is not believable that he never had a bad enough day. BTW Lemond also found Armstrong´s career at least suspicious.

 

Actually Armstrong had lots of bad days if one believes the media reports and Armstrong's books. Here is on media quote on what may have been one of his worst days:

"Armstrong says he was lucky not to lose the event in 2000 on a climb to Morzine, when he ran out of energy because he hadn't eaten enough. He struggled on, losing more than a minute to key rival Jan Ullrich -- the 1997 Tour winner putting up a strong challenge again this year. "It was the worst day of my life on a bicycle," the 31-year-old Texan said in his autobiography."


Also according to MDs in my cycling club, EPO is produced naturally by the liver and kidneys humans.

By the way I am not a great Armstrong fan; if I am a fan of any riders they would be LeMond, Merx, L. Bobet, Reg Harris, and Rebecca Twig.

 

I couldn't vote because Armstrong is not accused of taking steroids but of taking EPO (erythropoeitin). Erythropoeitin is a natural hormone that stimulates the generation of red blood cells (erythrocytes). Cancer patients use it to treat the anemia that results from chemotherapy with cytotoxic agents. People in sports apparently also use it to boost their erythrocyte count to improve oxygen carrying capacity.

It's difficult to distinguish injected erythropoeitin from endogenous erythropoeitin. They both have the same amino acid sequence. But the drug is produced in Chinese Hamster Ovary (CHO) cells and therefore has glycosylation patterns that are characteristic of hamsters rather than humans. Indeed, human glycosylation is unique (differs even from chimpanzees) -- so with very sensitive instrumentation, CHO-derived erythropoeitin can in principle be distinguished absolutely from endogenous erythropoeitin.

The half-life of injected erythropoeitin is short -- less than a day. So there's little likelihood that there would be residual CHO-derived material in the serum a year after cancer therapy.

(Disclaimer: I know nothing about doping or testing, so the above is based only on my knowledge as a scientist working in the biotechnology industry.)

 

Who's Lance Armstrong?

 

The International Cycling Union penalizes a concentration of hemocritos superior to 50% (if memory serves well), which according to sport drug specialists is equivalent to have consumed EPO. What is even more interesting, the four cyclist tested the prologue stage of the 1999 Tour were postive. So I suspect many use it as a a way to get there in perfect condiction since as Oxpecker says its traces disappear in 24 hours (not its effects). Here everyone knows this is a vendetta, all cyclist use those drugs although it cannot be demostrated (but many former cyclist have dennounced it).

Ian, by cracking I don´t mean losing 60 seconds. That´s not even close. In 1996 Indurain cracked in a second class mountain, Les Arcs, and lost almost 4 minutes (it could have been a lot more had he been a novice). It cost him losing that Tour to a semi unknown Danish cyclist in the decadence of his career. I know that Armstrong has always had a first class team, that brought him up and down, but I find strange he never broke really bad (after coming back, of course, because he often did before his disease). Like other champions before him did. Pantani, Ullrich, Zoetemelk, said Indurain, Hinault in the AlpeD´Huez, etc ...

 

Hi Oxpecker:

I have been taking Pharmaceutical grade Amino Acids for years. As you know of course, they are 100% legal. The combination I take is:

L-Arginine HCI
L-Lysine
L-Ornithine
L-Glutamine
Vitamin B-6
(as pyridoxine HCI)

I take them because research has shown Amino Acids to aid in overall health, and also for sports reasons. I have been a Martial Artist since the age of Ten.

Would these have a similar effect to EPO? Like you said, EPO is perfectly legal. I take these Amino Acids via gelatine capsules, and of course would never think of injecting them or anything like that.

I am just curious as to your thoughts since you are a scientist.

Thanks,

Abner

 

Abner, I am not a specialist in this by any means, but according to Dr. Ferrara, the one who allegedly doped Armstrong, EPO is not bad for your health if properly administered. I think I recall you can buy here over the counter (but I am not sure where I read that, with all the info bombardment the last days regarding this Armstrong case, and if I got it right). Regards.

 

No. These might be good nutritionally (assuming not taken in unreasonable excess) but would not produce the very specific effect that EPO does.

(Just to nitpick a little: vitamin B6 is not an amino acid.)

 

Ok, thanks JLV and Oxpecker!


Abner