Lance Armstrong

I am bummed bigtime by the French newsmagazine accusing Lance Armstrong of doping in 1999. Personally, I think it is sour grapes by the French because in the last 20 years they have only won 10 Tours. Lance, in my opinion, is one of the best athetes alive - and from his demeanor, I know he understands that he that he is looked up to by a lot of kids. I doubt he took performance enhancers.

What is your take - do you beleive the French or do you think it is just sour grapes?

 

Sour grapes. Or more likely, it's matter of a good story (actually, a bad one) selling more papers. For example, you may not agree with the following example, Mr. Engineer, but per inside information I've heard from guys who were actually over in Iraq, the good stories, the military and humanitarian successes, are being reported in ratio to the bad along the lines of 1 to 10. The negative media's not so much a leftie phenomenon, as it is a selling ad space and boosting readership or viewership phenomenon. Bad news sells--there's the main bias. This may be the only area in which I agree with Al Franken on anything.

The Tour is such a force of nature over there, so important, what better way to boost circulation than through rumor and intrigue about the absolute master of that sport of such importance?

If Lance really were doping or doing steroids, with all the accusations, it's almost inconceivable that someone wouldn't have detected it by now. Don't they test those guys with numbing regularity and oust offenders as well?

I think the guy actually benefitted from his cancer, as it caused him to shed a few pounds that never came back. When climbing mountains for a couple weeks on a bike, every ounce counts.

 

Didn't Palmeiro say that about Canseco? What sports are is not what sports used to be so I wouldn't be surprised if they were used.

 

Never heard of the fellow, but if he irks the French...

 

Conseco has been a crybaby f---head since he was in Oakland. I used to see him in his days with the A's in the 1980's- he as much much smaller. (so was Mcguire). I don't see these baseball players in the same light as Armstrong.

I am so sick of Bonds though. Yes, I know that you have to be gifted to hit 702 HR's and you don't get that from steroids alone - but come on - look at the guy. I can't say for sure he did take anything - but he should come clean - say yes, I did for whatever reason - and move on.

It is amazing - no one ever learns. You can lie once - but if you get caught - fess up (as long as you didn't commit a crime) - and move on. Most people are pretty forgiving unless you lie again.

Just my two.

Little Fauss: Yes - negative does sell - on both sides of the aisle.

 

Not that I want to, but if you want to answer yes, you can't.

 

Probably he did. I am almost sure he did. They all do it. Period. It is just impossible for a person to be pedaling for four or five hours at a 40km/h average, and then climb the Alpe D´Huez in just 40 minutes. And do that for three weeks.

Having said that I think those French are despicable. They can’t forgive he’s an American, that they are unable to produce a decent cyclist since Hinault and Fignon. On top of that, in 1999, eritropoyetine (?), EPO, wasn’t even an illegal substance. They have been after this man from day one, and this is the penultimate chapter of this grotesque witch hunt. BTW, another American has won the Tour of France before Armstrong and was as good cyclist as him: Gregg LeMond, who had a similar remarkable personal story behind him (he was shot at by his father in law, and overcame it to win the Tour twice or thrice). He was a truly champion. Honestly, he was a brilliant man that left a great deal of good memories in the minds and hearts of the aficionados).

Together with soccer, this is one of my favorite sports, I follow it every summer, and I like Armstrong, I just think he’s not good at public relations. He doesn’t kiss French ass, and many people think he’s an ass***le. I disagree with that. He’s probably not a great communicator, but he’s a good man with a courageous heart and very intelligent, his best weapon. Without a doubt he’s the legitimate 7 time winner of the Tour of France. Here in Europe everyone knows that and accepts it, except for the French. Well, who cares? I suggest we dedicate the rest of this thread to openly insult the French

BTW, just in case, and for the record, Armstrong was unable to defeat Indurain, our five time champion, the best cyclist ever without a question.




PS Mr. Engineer, there is no way that they have won 10 Tours in the last 20 years . If memory serves well, French must have won two or three at the most. Fignon, he was their last man, in the late 80´s. Then failure after failure, year after year. The last offense, a Texan winning THEIR Tour!!!! I wouldn´t pay too much attention. He´ll be in Larry King´s Show tonight defending himself from this stupidities.

 

I am a former bicycle racer, official, and race promoter and follow the sport closely. I have yet to see the science (including the probability of false positives and negatives) behind the EPO test. A couple of dozen cyclists have been accused/suspended for the use of EPO, some admiiting guilt and others denying guilt.

A confounding factor in the Armstrong accusation is that Armstrong took EPO during his cancer treatment. Could this have effected the tests a year or so later?

Cycling has one of the strictest "doping" penalties in sports (usually a two year suspension).

 

I saw LeMond race in person once, but it wasn't bicycles, it was Indy-type cars, just a step below the Big Time, and he was fast. He raced the Streets of Minneapolis race in the mid-90s and was a very competitive second in class. His racing career was sadly truncated because his wife put the kibosh on it (or so I'm told). Otherwise, we might be seeing him out there right now rubbing tires with Danica Patrick and Wheldon and Castroneves and the gang.

No way, Eddie Merckx!

 

I'm with Uncle!

 

I haven't paid much attention to this since competitive bicycling doesn't interest me.

But isn't the French paper claiming that some of Armstrong's samples have been retested for endurance-enhancing drugs that weren't tested for originally?

It seems to me that's pretty unambiguous. If the sampes still exist and if better tests are now available, the answer shouldn't be too hard to verify one way or the other.

 

Re: Re: Lance Armstrong

I work next to Stanford and occassionally bike with a few students from the college. I can see quite a few excellent bikers including a co-worker (who is in his mid-50's) who rides from Fremont, across the Dumbarton and then to work every day (and back). Lance is awesome - most impressive athlete alive today (IMHO). -- Palmaro, Conseco, Bonds and the rest pale in comparison.

I think he should sue the frick out of the French publication (if he truly didn't take the 'roids). Set the example.

 

I had no idea. Once he finished his brilliant cycling careeer I lost track of the guy. But I am sure he would excel in anything he wanted to. As I said he was a true champion.

Yeah, but he didn´t defeat Armstrong.... He he he No, just joking. It is true, Merckx got more winnings in the Big Three than anybody else (11 times). After him, it is Bernard Hinault with ten times. I was old enough to see this one "in situ" when he ran in Spain in the 80´s. He was another great champion (in spite of being French! ) BTW, you must be one those few Americans who know about Eddie Merckx, and European cycling. Wouldn´t you happen to know which is the best soccer club ever?

 

US made bikes in the Tour de France

It is not common knowledge in the USA that at least three teams in the Tour used bicycle frames that were designed and manufactured in the USA: Trek, Cannondale, and Scot.

When in Europe I see quite a few of these brand bikes in shops and on the road.

The Cannondale team must add weights to their bikes to meet minimum racing weight regulations.

 

Mr.Engineer

Why not? What's the difference?

 

Larry King Show

Hey did anyone see the Larry King show tonight because Lance was on it. He definately did not use, it is a smear campaign by the French. If you follow Lance at all, it is a fact that the French have been after him for years for this stuff. IIRC that they even broke into his hotel room at one point in time during a TDF to try and prove that he had EPO or other doping stuff with him. I'm a huge bicycling fan and have been for years, it killed me when Tyler Hamilton was outed after the Olympics for blood transfusions. Doping is a horrible way to win, but there will always be those who want to get ahead at any cost. On Larry King, Bob Costas was co - anchoring and also said that he had spoken to medical pros and that any EPO in his blood from the chemo would be gone in a few months max. So it wasn't from the chemo. Theyare just doing it to put that little seed of doubt in people.

PS - I vote for Eddy Merckx as the best ever , Big Mig was a great tour rider ( and has a resting heartbeat of like 20 beats per minute! ) but Merckx is the all around...

 

Yeah. That's what I was thinking, too. Pretty much cuts to the chase, I think. I mean, I know who Lance is, of course (and all about the allegations); but irking the French... now there's a worthwhile endeavor, eh?

 

Indurain was the best. A 6' 3" freak of nature.

I can't make up my mind about the French, and have had rather intense exposure to them this century. They remind me a little of cats. Aloof and self-centred, but lovable in a detached way.

I certainly love their sausage, coffee and pain au cholocat...

 

For you or me, I'd say definitely. For people in the Armstrong or Indurain class, who have a VO2 Max twice normal, the resting pulse of a slug, who have specially-designed equipment, a full support team and who spend at least 35 hours a week on the bike, I'd say that it is possible without steroids. For a select few.

Also, these people aren't alone - they have a team and ride in a peloton (shielded from the wind) for most of the race. This allows them to expend on average 1/3 of the effort of someone riding by themselves. Sprinting is only done at the end of the stage, and only for a relatively short distance, not for tens or hundreds of km.

Finally, most cyclists are specialists - some are great in the mountains, some great in the time trials, but few who excel at both. Before Lance's cancer treatment (where as it was mentioned he shed a lot of weight) he was not as well rounded as he is now.

All I know is that Lance has never failed a drug test - not once - and he's checked at the end of any stage that he wins, all races that he's won and randomly throughout the year. That would make him either very lucky, very crafty, or clean. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise.

Cheers,
Mark

 

If it helps to understand better the situation, ALL professionals and former profesionals I have heard in the last days referring to this Armstrong- L'Equipe incident have expressed their disgust and disbelief. No one has agreed with the newspaper or with Leblanc. In fact, many of the team directors are considering vetoing L'Equipe now that the Vuelta a España is about to begin (tomorrow).