Kennedy Western

You forgot the Spanish version of TCU Bill!
My experience with TCU, then in South Dakota, is well documented in DegreeInfo posts.
All I have ever stated about this involvement is that it helped in the production of the most important work covering - natural history of the NZ Brown Teal and on how it can be saved from extinction - that has ever been published.
Dr Anatidae

 

Some companies accept KW degrees but you cannot use them to teach or take a government job and you cannot use it for further study. For example, if you got your BA at KW you couldn't use it to apply for a masters program. The management tries very hard to portray it as a legitimate university, not a business, but when you take into consideration the way that the employees are trained and pressured to make sales, it becomes clear that it is a very successful and profitable company. And a former employee recently received a "cease and desist" letter from the KW lawyer (who, coincidentally is the wife of the president), for posting factual information on this website.

 

I would like to read the KW catalogue, but they will not send it to me as I live in California. I also can not enroll in any classes from there.

So, since, by law I can not tell directly anthing about the "quality" of KW I ust go on inference. Why do you suppose that I am excluded like this from such a "fine" school (not)?

 

The truth of the matter is that KW is not as bad as other degree mills where you literally need only a credit card to get a degree.
They use your work experience as some of the work toward your degree and the rest of the classes you take online from professors who work at other universities and do this work as extra contract work. It's the fact that they train their admissions counselors as salespeople who make most of their money off of commission that questions their integrity. And that they're not accredited and try to convince you that this isn't important (which, it isn't for some companies but if you ever want to switch to a government job or teach, you're back at square one).

 

Mike
The KWU catalogue is now available by email. Their hardcopy version is a very impressive document. Perhaps you could get an out of State friend to get a copy for you.
Dr Anatidae

 

The KW catalogue is very impressive...much more impressive than any legitimate on-campus schools that I've seen. Perhaps that's because it was put together by a business with a marketing department. Nobody's questioning their ability to make a nice presentation. Also, I question the motive of anyone who so defensively sticks up for KW, unless maybe they work there. I know for a fact that KW staff monitor this site because they were very quick to lecture their staff about the legal implications of posting here after a recently fired employee did just that a few weeks ago. Just a thought.

 

Hi Cantsay

I appreciate your post and the information you add to the forum. The fact that some companies have accepted K-W degrees does not say anything useful about K-W. Some companies have accepted SRU degrees. Name a degree mill and you are likely to find some company some where that has accepted its degrees by mistake. I see a clear comparison between K-W and Columbia State before the FBI raided it. Will that happen to K-W anytime soon? I don't know, but it certainly would NOT surprise me.

F.N. is either unwilling or mentally unable to seperate truth from fiction. It is clear that K-W is a degree mill. They have moved from state to state to avoid regulation and closure. It is illegal in at least two states, possibly more, to use a K-W degree in any form. It is very consistent with degree mill tactics to use the arguments F.N. uses. Cetainly he can believe anything he wants, but he convinces no one here with his faulty thinking and illogical arguments.

 

Well written DaveH - in your usual bombastic, totally rude, and totally subjective way. Keep it up and DegreeInfo will eventually have no members - that is all except the 'gang of three' (you are, of course, one of these). Then what would you do in your spare time? Carry on in the same inane manner on AED I suppose?
Dr Anatidae

 

F.N.

I am unsure if you are trying to be funny or it just comes out that way. I have been posting at Degreeinfo since it began and before that on AED. So far degreeinfo seems to be doing fine. If you find my posting of the truth about K-W being a degree mill or your being unwilling to accept obvious truth, I feel sorry for you. Perhaps it is the degree mill credential that forces you into such mental contortions. In any event I wish you well.

 

P.S. Who is the gang of three? I am usually very flattered when degree mill supporters make that kind of rant as it often places me with people I hold in high regard. Do tell!

 

Dave
You've had the privilege of replacing Gus, who seems to have fallen by the wayside, in the 'gang of three'.
But it does seem from the more sensible discussions on this thread that there are a number of other members who believe KWU has some value. Of course, this was clearly shown in the KWU poll, which showed a result that 'the gang of three' chose
to ridicule - simply because it did not agree with there outdated
and well passed 'use-by' date philosophy.
Dr Anatidae

 

Hmm. I can't think of anyone that thinks of K-W as other than a degree mill. Five classes and bang a bachelor's! Lol! Great marketing, but certainly NOT a respectable degree.

 

fnhayes;

As an enthusiastic defender of Kennedy-Western and TC&U, you should be able to answer the following questions;

1) Why can't K-W enroll, or even send literature to, potential students in California?

2) Why is any use of a K-W or TC&U degree in Wyoming a criminal offense?

3) Are any K-W or TC&U dissertations filed with UMI?

4) Jack Tracey has offered to buy a copy of your dissertation, and even pay postage. I'll match what Jack pays (doubling your profit), and also pay 1/2 the postage. Deal?

There you have it. I eagerly await your response, and rest assured that I will accept nothing less than full answers. I'll keep asking these 4 questions, and keep this thread alive, for all eternity until you answer.

Your move, Dr. Duck.

 

Okay Dr. Hayes, you state that your degree is beyond reproach.

That version of TC&U (not that any of the others are any better) is described in Bears' Guide. It is unaccredited except by two unrecognized agencies one that TC&U had a hand in creating (APCU). Do you really not see the conflict of interest and the fraudulent behavior in this silly claim of accreditation by TC&U? They also claim accreditation by the Association for Online Academic Excellence, AOAE. Another unrecognized accreditation sham. Do you claim that TC&U is accredited or do you admit that these accreditation claims are just part of TC&U's marketing attempt at deceiving prospective students?

TC&U offers degrees at all levels by assessment of life experience and learning. Do you agree that awarding a Ph.D. based on an assessment of life experience and learning is bogus? Do you accept the fact that almost a half dozen TC&U's, many incestiously interlated, looks very suspicious? Are you actually arguing that you have a degree that is beyond reproach when the source of that degree has these kinds of embarrassments?

Please explain to me the rational that can lead you to believe that you are not an academic fraud?

 

This is true from one perspective. From the perspective of fooling the academic naive into believing that they are a real school that can grant standard academic degrees, they are far more insidious and devious because they require some real work.

BTW, getting back to that KWU test that is apparently worth 60 semester credits, it's one thing that no one seems to know anything about. It appears to be nothing more than a statement in the entrance requirements for a Bachelor's degree. I could find no mention of it on the KWU forum when that was public. Is it totally bogus? Have they ever given this test to anyone? How long of a test is it that it can apparently cover all of the lower division subjects for a Bachelor's degree?

 

I didn't mean to sound like I was defending them in any way. They do require some work, unlike other places, but are still so very far from being a legitimate university that I shouldn't have even made the comparison. And you're right, the fact that they do such a good job of fooling everyone makes them much more devious. It is much easier to tell that the ones that require no work at all are a scam.

 

KWU does appear to have a well qualified faculty.

http://jobs.kw.edu/fac_profile.asp

 

After reading the remarks from the Chancellor of K-W, I am reminded of how remarkable is the ability for the human psyche to rationalize. Once one buys into a rationalization, then their position becomes "truth" and is no longer a point requiring defending. Rather, it becomes a truth that others simply have not yet come to appreciate and understand.

When it reaches that level, trying to discuss generally accepted norms with one who has successfully completed the rationalization process is a futile endeavor. They have heard the arguments. They likely have a glimmer of reality through the veils of rationalizations they have built up. They will come to deny their rationalizations, or not, on their own time.

This does not affect the generally accepted norms of the situation: K-W awards degrees for little work and provides no legitimate academic process for assessing work experience. As with other companies that offer similar goods and services, it has some utility. The risks associated with using a KW degree where its utility falls short is a risk chosen by those that have taken this route. There is a high likelihood that it will eventually fall short. It may not be until that time that the rationalizations do, as well.

 

Liars welcome!

But, why can I not enroll if this is such a fine school. Oh, by the way, they ask for your state of residence BEFORE you can download the catalog.

So, to get information from this "fine" school I have to lie, what does that say for the quality of the school.

"If you lie to us we will let you in, but if you tell the truth you are not welcome!"

 

Bruce,
I'm still waiting for you to answer my question about 'qualifications', particularly those relating to Jack.
When you answer this you could provide information about why
you have banned Richard Suhar and Peter French.
In answer to your questions and comments:
1. I have never been an enthusiastic defender of either KWU or
TCU. All I have done with my comments is attempt to present
factual information. The fact that you and your RA Extremist
buddies choose to ignore facts and then become abusive and
arrogant when any member mentions 'unaccredited' is, as
I've already stated elsewhere, a sad indictment on
DegreeInfo.
2. I'm sure you are well aware of the reason why K-W cannot
enrol students who live in California. This has not prevented
KWU from becoming very succesful and KWU still has a
distinctive presence in California.
3. How many people have been prosecuted for using an
unaccredited degree in Oregon (not Wyoming)? As I've
mentioned elsewhere, the infamous Oregon list, which
contains some reputable unaccredited universities, is just
another RA appeasement exercise and in law is really not
worth the paper it is written on - because it is impossible to
enforce. This particular law is very real ass.
4. You know as well as I do that UMI have historically filed very
few dissertations from 'unaccredited' DL organisations and
that it is now almost impossible to file one unless it comes
from a USA RA or equivalent university.
5. I will not be supplying Jack Tracey with a copy of my brown
teal dissertation - ever. But because you have yet to be as
rude as Jack I'm happy to email you a copy of both the
original dissertation and a copy of the manual, on receipt of
$5,000US paid into the Brown Teal Conservation Trust's
account in New Zealand. The email versions take around four
hours to download.
This is likely to be my last post to DegreeInfo for some time, and I'll leave the 'gang of three' to continue their attacks on other members who choose to comment on unaccredited degrees.
The way I see it that unless the DegreeInfo philosophy allows for open discussion on all aspects of DL education, without fear of abuse and all the other evil things some RA DegreeInfo fanatics have done in the past, DegreeInfo will be doomed to extinction far quicker than the NZ Brown Teal.
Dr Anatidae