Kennedy-Western University

As long as (a) WNU firewalls themselves from K-WU and (b) they run a legitimate operation, I couldn't care less if they become accredited. It would represent not the accreditation of a previously unaccredited school, but instead the repurposing of their assets towards a new school. That's cool, as long as K-WU "graduates" can't benefit from WNU.

 

A quick search like "cv vitae 'kennedy western' phd" reveals an alarming number of people proudly peddling their KW phds.

Here's one who claims a masters and phd from KW: http://www.johnconiglio.com/curriculum_vitae.htm

Interestingly, in small print he does acknowledge that KW is unaccredited:

EDUCATION

Safety Engineering, PhD - 2002
Kennedy-Western University

Environmental Engineering, M.S. Degree - 2000
Kennedy-Western University

(small print) Graduate Course work includes classes at Canisius College , State University College of New York @ Buffalo as matriculating student. Final degree after further course work completion, thesis, dissertation and defense from Kennedy-Western University . Non-accredited, distance learning; Kennedy-Western registered with Idaho State Board of Education. Self-study continuing education; self-paced, good texts & course curriculum selection specific to profession.

 

I agree with Rich that WNU's pursuit of accreditation is basically a good thing. A good thing IF WNU keeps its distance from K-W and the thousands of earlier K-W degrees aren't effectively 'accredited' by implication.

It's true that every new school was unaccredited at some point. But most new schools didn't churn out unaccredited degrees in the quantities that K-W did, and few new schools have had to change their academic practices as dramatically.

That second point suggests that earlier K-W degrees weren't accreditable degrees awarded before accreditation was received. That needs to be made abundantly clear in order to prevent K-W graduates from becoming free-riders on WNU's accreditation.

Finally, if and when WNU is accredited, I'll still personally consider it among the bottom feeders of RA. Its management have shown that they are willing to make questionable educational decisions for business reasons. Their pursuit of accreditation is another business decision. So, what's going to happen after they are accredited, if the accreditor doesn't catch on and if it improves the bottom line? It's going to be hard to trust something like that.

It's like Agent Smith said in 'the Matrix'...

"I hate this place! It's the smell!!!"

 

My questions are:

What are the applicant's other credentials?

Is a PhD necassary for the job or does it give him/her a leg up on the competition for the position?

If the other creds are sound and the PhD doesn't matter, take that into account as well.

I will not consider an unaccredited degree for a position but neither will I eliminate an applicant who is otherwise qualified. I just treat the unaccredited degree like it wasn't there unless I know for a fact the degree is from a mill. But schools like SCUPS, Kennedy Western, etc. are in fact schools, just not the kind I would attend or recommend...

But if you can "buy" a degree there, then they are degree mills and I disqualify the applicant. But that's just me.

 

I can go along with what Rich, Bill and FriendorFoe have stated. I would add this: merely being unaccredited doesn't make a school terrible, necessarily. Some states do prohibit the use of degrees from such schools. I myself attended an unaccredited, but state licensed, broadcasting school and received a career diploma. That education helped lay the groundwork for a 20 year career in radio and television. It's the quality of the education that counts, and by most accounts a KW education is substandard.

If Warren National has truly pulled a "do over" and they have cut off KW like a cancerous limb, more power to them, if their education is up to snuff. If they have simply changed their name, but not the quality of their programs, then that just won't do.

The University of Atlanta (the formerly millish Barrington University) is a case in point. I believe the school was sold, the new owners moved the school's headquarters, changed their programs, and sought and received DETC accreditation. There is no mention of Barrington University, and they certainly don't have the questionable FAQ's that are present on the KW/WN web site.

 

The GAO investigation, I think, made it clear how KWU used to work. No published graduation requirements and overly generous life experience that wasn't verified. WNU has cleaned up, at least some. Much fewer degrees being offered. Standard credits required for graduation now. What about the life experience angle?

Here's a small example of what a Google search turned up.

Experience: At Warren National, they understand there is no substitute for real-world experience. That’s why they offer you credit toward your degree for your time on the job. You can complete your degree entirely online. It’s the flexible and convenient way to achieve your career goals.
http://www.education-online-search.com/schools/warren_national_university


Apply your work experience and previous education toward earning a degree from Warren National University.
http://www.education-online-search.com/programs/computer_training/electronics_training/_nc


The educational and work experience of each student is evaluated prior to admittance and academic credit is given for applicable experience toward the degree program pursued.
http://www.adultlearn.com/kennedy-western-university.htm


At Warren National University , you can apply your work experience and previous education towards earning a recognized degree online, studying courses that relate directly to your profession.
http://kwu-degrees.com/index.cfm?drop_id=m20&key=cw-&sid=F0A66631-3048-8F75-D72D2D81C2D49AD1&fid=careers,engineering,mi


Credit for Work Experience
Recognizing that professional students already possess a wealth of knowledge in their chosen field, Warren National University’s evaluation process grants credit for previous experience by taking the student’s educational and professional experience into account. Thus, the qualified student does not have to repeat basic courses that have already been mastered. Because of this unique approach, five years of full-time work experience are required to be considered for admission into the University.
http://www.edref.com/school_list/warren-national-university


Because Warren National University recognizes the inherent value of work experience, knowledge accrued on the job will be immediately credited towards your degree in addition to previous educational credits.
http://www.universities.com/Distance_Learning/Warren_National_University_Bachelor_of_Science_Computer_Science.html


Receive credit for professional experience as well as prior education
http://www.education-advancement.com/school/warren-national-university.htm


This offer is only valid to US residents at this time. This offer is not valid for residents of California, Oregon or Utah, or with individuals with less than 5 years of work experience or under the age of 23.
http://www.wnuedu.com/request-information.asp


Experience: At Warren National , they understand there is no substitute for real-world experience. That’s why they offer you credit toward your degree for your time on the job. You can complete your degree entirely online! It’s the flexible and convenient way to achieve your career goals.
http://wnuonlinedegrees.com/

The last two are from what looks like WNU websites not just paid advertising. What is that about 5 years work experience? What does it all mean? To me it means that perhaps WNU may still be trying to use a number of years experience equals so much credit. Is it conclusive? No, it could be advertisement hype. UoP makes some similar claims in advertising. But UoP also seems more upfront about what academic credit for experience really means. http://www.universityofphoenixdegree.com/admissions/prior_learning_assessment.aspx
I can't find anything similar on the WNU website.

 

I largely disagree with Rich's statement that it's OK for WNU to be forming based on KWU assets.

For me, it still goes to institutional integrity. WNU would never exist if it hadn't been able to raise the money to start a legit program by fleecing tens of thousands of people. KWU was, is, and always will be an unwonderful program. It constantly amazes me that they've been able to convince some of the large advertising aggregators to accept them as a legit school when they are so obviously not.

There are plenty of schools that started out unaccredited, but always provided high quality education and were run by good people who started the schools for the right reasons, and eventually became accredited. Giving the seal of approval to a school started by a bunch of charlatans who have had to move across state lines several times and, last I checked, were still deceptive about where their real operations are located is NOT, in my opinion, what any regional accreditor should even consider doing.

 

Could be said of quite a few businesses. And at least one family named "Kennedy."

 

Here is an article that I read a couple of months ago concerning this questionable school.

P.S.: Your M.A. or Ph.D. may be B.S.
Some Floridians with top jobs hold degrees from questionable academic institutions.
By RON MATUS, Times Staff Writer
Published December 6, 2007
________________________________________

A fire chief. A state representative. A top administrator at a local hospital.
All are Floridians who claim, or once claimed, academic degrees from institutions that are widely considered suspect, or even diploma mills.
Among them is Walter Pannone, the chief nursing officer at Oak Hill Hospital in Spring Hill. He has a Ph.D. in health administration from Kennedy Western University, one of hundreds of schools higher education and distance learning experts say are questionable.
"I feel as though my Ph.D. is as good as anyone else's," Pannone said.
Pannone's name surfaced with dozens of others when the St. Petersburg Times searched Florida newspapers for the names of just six of those institutions.
The review was prompted by last month's disclosure that Walt McNeil, whom Gov. Charlie Crist tapped to head the Department of Juvenile Justice, has a master's degree in criminology from St. John's University - an obscure correspondence school that was founded by a hypnotherapist, offered classes in parapsychology and has no connection to the better-known St. John's University in New York.
Nobody's sure how many people have such degrees, but experts on the subject, including a retired FBI agent in Tampa who once led a diploma-mill task force, estimate there are hundreds of thousands.
Like McNeil, some of them have jobs with huge responsibilities. The Times search found a director of pharmacy services at a Panhandle hospital who has a Ph.D. in health administration; an American Airlines pilot in Broward County who says he's getting a Ph.D. in safety engineering; a former 911 manager in Pasco with a bachelor's degree in business administration. All degrees from questionable schools.
On the Jacksonville Fire and Rescue Web site, division chief Charles Moreland claims a master's degree in fire science from Almeda University. The Florida Department of Education ordered the online school to cease operating in the state in 2003.
"There are Fortune 500 businesses that have members of their companies go through Almeda, so I'm sure they have some credibility," said Moreland, who also has a master's in public administration from Nova Southeastern University, which is credibly accredited.
Like Kennedy Western, Almeda is not accredited by any entity recognized by the U.S. Department of Education or the Council for Higher Education Accreditation. The school is on Oregon's list of unaccredited degree suppliers. It's on Maine's list of nonaccredited colleges and universities.
In Texas, it is illegal to use a degree from Almeda or similar institutions to get a job or promote a business.
Technically, it's illegal to even claim such a degree in Florida. But the 1989 law that made such a claim a misdemeanor has been declared unconstitutional in part of the state and is rarely enforced elsewhere.
Experts on questionably accredited colleges and universities say many people turn to them to cut corners, pump up their reputations and/or obtain jobs or pay increases that hinge on higher degrees. But it's possible that some are lured by slick Web sites and authentic-sounding claims about accreditation.
Almeda says it's accredited by three organizations: the Council for Distance Education Accreditation, the Association for Online Academic Excellence and Interfaith Education Ministries. None of them is recognized by U.S. DOE or CHEA.
Almeda offers a warning on its Web site: "Accreditation or acceptance by any of the above organizations ensures that degrees issued by Almeda carry the weight they need to be accepted by small, medium and large companies across the United States and around the world. However, accreditation by these organizations does not guarantee your degree will be accepted by everyone."
It's possible, too, that people with such degrees did credible academic work.
Pannone, the Oak Hill Hospital administrator, said he worked on his Kennedy Western dissertation full time for six months. The school changed its name to Warren National University this year. "It's a legitimate degree that I've earned," Pannone said. "I think people are concerned about degree mills where you can buy a degree. That's not what Kennedy Western is."
A U.S. Senate committee put a spotlight on Kennedy Western in 2004.
A Coast Guard officer working for the Senate Governmental Affairs Committee testified that Kennedy Western waived nearly half of the credit requirements for a master's degree in environmental engineering based on her work experience, which included no formal engineering training, and without asking for proof or documentation for any of her claims. She said completed most of the remaining course requirements with 16 hours of study.
Pannone refused to e-mail a copy of his dissertation to the Times, or allow the Times to pay for a printed copy. "I don't know what you'd do with it," he said. "Come up here, and I'd be glad to review it with you."
Others who have obtained such degrees say they are victims.
State Rep. Jennifer Carroll, R-Green Cove Springs, once noted a master's degree from Kensington University on her House Web site. But she removed the reference in 2004 after a news reporter asked about it.
In an e-mail last week, she said she spent more than $20,000 and countless hours of research "only to find out that the institution lied about being accredited." Officials in Hawaii and California shut down Kensington in 2003.
"I really do not wish to revisit this issue," Carroll wrote. "I will only talk about it if their sic is a lawsuit that I can be a party to to recoup some of my money."
Dennis Kellenberger, general manager for the environmental group Tampa Bay Watch, once claimed a master's in management from Almeda. But he said he didn't keep the reference on his resume long.
The degree was based on work experience and coursework at other institutions, and did not include any classes from Almeda, said Kellenberger, who started the Clearwater Marine Aquarium and ran it for 25 years. "It looked like something that was of some worthiness, but after I got to looking at it more," he dropped it, he said.
Kellenberger asked whether there was a list of questionable institutions that prospective students could use to check whether a degree is "something of value."
States such as Oregon and Texas have such lists. Florida does not.

 

Rich asks an interesting question. A year or so ago when they first changed their name, announced that they were applying for regional accreditation, dropped their less popular programs, and actually published graduation requirements, I thought that they actually might become accredited. Since then there's been a couple of people that have posted that they were offered degree programs from WNU for the old 5 classes and a paper formula from the KWU days. Also WNU continues to advertise things that seem to insinuate that they are still following the old KWU formula. A few months back if you typed "diploma mill" in a Google search then WNU popped up as a paid advertisement, for example. This all means that I've changed my mind and no longer believe that WNU will make candidacy.

 

Well, WNU claims to believe it:

WNU has apparently cleared one hurdle already: the Higher Learning Commission granted them "Eligibility" status in December 2007. Presumably HLC could have rejected WNU at this phase, if they were deemed grossly deficient.

WNU is scheduled for a Site Visit from HLC in October 2008, and should find out if it achieves "Candidacy" in March 2009.

 

The internet ads may not be entirely up to date. For example, a Google search for "Warren National" and "engineering" turns up lots of seemingly current ads touting WNU engineering degrees, but it's clear that these have in fact been dropped. And engineering was not one of WNU's "less popular" programs; it was reportedly one of the more popular.

I think WNU is trying for real; otherwise they would not have dropped the engineering degrees. Whether or not they succeed is another question.

 

I think the Ads are just old. THeir FAQ is surprisingly upfront and worth a read:

http://www.wnuedu.com/PublicAccreditationNotice-faq.asp

 

Another possibility that I've considered is that WNU management believes that the old formula conformed to academic standards. At least for the programs that they decided to keep? Afterall, I've heard that the owner has been known to be a yeller in at least one instance and bosses that yell are more likely to suffer from the king-has-no-clothes-syndrom.

 

I note that the current (?) web site offers a DBA
http://www.wnuedu.com/academics-areas-of-study-business-doctorate.asp

 

Seriously? No.

 

Don't be so sure of that - I'm sure that one of the things the team looks at is the KWU/WNU "firewall." If there is a firewall there, and it looks like there is, my bet is that they will be granted candidacy status. My two cents.

Shawn

 

They kept their DBA program but I believe dropped all their other doctorates. I suspect those were big money makers. This was one of the things that convinced me at one time that they were being serious.

A side note is that DETC requires doctorate programs to be discontinued before accreditation but not the RA agencies.