Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by KKA, Jan 11, 2009.

  1. KKA

    KKA Member

    Here is a new DL international player:

    As stated on the website:

    "Some of the benefits you can expect from KEISIE:
    » Guaranteed, Internationally based Online, Distance Education you can trust
    » Masters and Doctoral Degrees
    » Professional Development and Training Programs
    » International Teacher and Administrator Education Focus
    » Low Tuition and Registration Fees
    » NO Hidden Fees, NO Cost for Textbooks
    » Highly Qualified International Faculty
    » Faculty Mentors and Advisors
    » Accelerated Courses
    » An International Base of Students from Around the World
    » Access to Numerous International Academic Libraries
    » 24 Hour Access to Academic Courses..."

  2. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    That website does not exactly inspire any confidence with me......
  3. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Staff Member

    I didn't find it on this list

    Also, a red flag goes up for me when I can't find a list of teaching staff. Maybe I just missed it.
  4. tob55

    tob55 New Member

    KEISIE Graduate School

    KEISIE Graduate School of International Education is a relatively new institution of higher education. The graduate School is seeking accreditation with a few CHEA, DoE recognized national agencies in the US as well as a national agency in the UK. Fully legitimate, licensed registered and authorized in Korea, and Chartered as Korea Education Incorporated in the State of Arkansas as a US Corporation.

    The Graduate School offers academic degrees in the area of education. If you have any specific questions send your inquiries to the email address from the website: [email protected] or make your inquires here. Please be reminded that the Graduate School administration is busy, so if you want to engage in a lengthy debate over the legitimacy of the Graduate School, you may be disappointed when your efforts are ignored. Of course any sincere and honest inquiries will be answered when time is available to provide information.

    Thank you all.

    KEISIE Graduate School of International Education
  5. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I agree with Bruce.

    It was incorporated in Arkansas a couple of months ago. The agent is Steve Barbee, the incorporator/organizer is Michael Lasala.
  6. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Staff Member

    Yes. And I am seeking millions of dollars from my local lottery. I'm guessing that the odds are wildly against us both. Since you are clearly a one-post-wonder, maybe you'll be willing to tell us who you really are and what is your relationship with this ?school?
  7. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

  8. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Staff Member

    from the meduc link

    "With KEISIE, I will receive my M.Ed and I will be happy about both the education I received, and the price I paid. After discussions with friends who are studying distance MA’s, MBA’s and M.Ed’s, I know that I am doing as much work as they are, and that I am receiving an education as valid as they are. In the end, that is all anybody should care about."

    I'm all about education for educations sake but then you don't need to put letters after your name, do you? If it's just about learning for the sake of learning? The above statement is totally naive and doesn't take into account that most people seeking such degrees are doing so for professional advancement. Then they'll wind up as some small newspaper story announcing their dismisal on charges of fraud. Game over.
  9. tob55

    tob55 New Member

    I am Wayne Bottiger, NOT the owner of KEISIE Graduate School, but I do serve in an administrative capacity with the Graduate School. Not much to tell since I am not the person throwing out comments. We are a legally recognized and legitimate Graduate School of Education operating as an online institution.

    I suppose I am a one post wonder, because other than the proud and the few, I have never heard of this forum until someone suggested to me in a different forum that I come over and comment on a thread that was started about the Graduate School. I simply responded after registering. Now it seems some folks want to take exception to my comments. You guys can do what you want, no one is stopping you, but really, if this is my reception for simply joining so I could respond, then fine, ban me from this web forum. It isn't like this is the only game going for quality discussion of educational offerings.

    Actually it would be my pleasure and distinct honor if you would go ahead and ban me, because I can already tell that any meaningful and productive discussion is going to be wasted on people who jump out of the starting blocks with accusations even before they know anything about the programs or people they are blasting away at.
  10. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    Well, you won't win over many students with a post like that. Nobody was talking about banning you. Nobody knows who you, or your school are. Forums like this are a great opportunity to expose people to a legitimate educational opportunity, which I think you probably just wasted. I don't recall anyone from UoP, AMU, Walden, Penn Foster College, Ashworth, AJU or the like registering at and then flaming potential students.

    Lighten up, buddy. You'll win more friends that way.
  11. Bruce

    Bruce Moderator Staff Member

    Being one of the four people who could ban you, let me make it clear, the thought never entered my mind. If you have a legitimate product (school) that might benefit the members of this site, then you're more than welcome to tell us about it. Andrew Jackson University has a representative who posts here regularly, and we're glad to have him.

    If your product is bogus or substandard, that will come to light soon enough. The members here are REALLY good at digging up information about new schools and programs.
  12. tob55

    tob55 New Member

    Thanks TCord1964

    Thanks for the follow up. I did not intend to flame any potential students, I responded to the deliberate flame against me and the KEISIE Graduate School. I responded, I didn't start the diatribe. My apologies to those who are offended by the wording of my post, but in all honesty, read through every post with the exception of KKA who started the thread and then tell us who started the downward spiral to this quickly descending pit of low level mire. KKA simply made a post for information purposes which was quickly followed by lack of confidence, red flags, winning lotteries, claims of naivete, forecasts of potential fraud to individuals who associate with the KEISIE Graduate School, and finally my last response prior to TCord1964.

    My reference to getting banned is because I prefer to be removed from this forum rather than having to be subjected to a myriad of discussions from people who appear to have no interest in what KEISIE offers or what it is doing as an international institution of higher education. As I said we have too much to do rather than sit around doing what I am having to do right now; explain my position and the position of the KEISIE Graduate School. I wish no one harm, and have no feelings one way or the other for I am sure in its own rights it is a good place, and one that at this point, for obvious reasons, to me I probably should not contribute to; not in an attempt to hide anything from anyone, but rather so I do not take my focus away from the personal and professionals goals of the institution I represent. If you do not understand that, then I am sorry.

    If a lack of professionalism is being cited in my regard, then please go no further than the forum admins who leveled such endearing comments (before even thinking to so much as ask for a response from me or other persons from KEISIE Graduate School or Korea Education Incorporated) what their motive and intent was.

    KEISIE Graduate School IS NOT a diploma mill, and functions at a high level of academic integrity. A primary goal of the institution is to offer high quality, low cost educational alternatives to people who are looking for a genuine and legitimate online graduate or post graduate degree without having to go into bankruptcy. The graduate school catalog is available for anyone to download from the campus website at The Graduate School is its own entity under the direction of the Corporate host, Korea Education Incorporated, which was set up in the United States recently for the purpose of making application for regional or national accreditation. Accreditation is being sought, and in time when the providers of accreditation give KEI the go ahead to publicly print information and evidence in this regard, it will be provided. The company is licensed, registered and authorized to offer online education in South Korea under the following business information: KEI Business ID#: 125-16-32840; Internet Registration: 2007-10

    The company is a private, for profit organization that has been in operation since May, 2007. The company operates entirely online, and the business offices are in South Korea. The owner of the company and President of the Corporation is a South Korean citizen. The academic staff and support technicians come from various parts of the world.

    The model for the academic programs offered by the Graduate School is patterned after similar models being used by Phoenix, AIU, Waldon, Tourou, and others, except with a global perspective. It is always the easiest thing to level accusations and hearsay about things we know nothing of, and generally I steer clear of this type of discussion. However, I was just attempting to clarify what KEISIE Graduate School is BEGINNING to do as an institution, along with a disclaimer regarding the bantering of people who want to tear down the institution for the sake of argument.

    Now, I am accused of being the perpetrator in this discussion by when that is not the truth at all. If you want open discussion, fine lets discuss openly, but if you plan to tear down an institution in its early stages of development just because it turns you on for some reason, then don't expect me or anyone connected to this institution to sit by without responding. Now this makes me a three post wonder, and if it is the last post I am allowed here, and it is not edited out, then you will have the truth about what KEISIE Graduate School is attempting to do.
  13. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    There you go again

    Once again, nobody has said anything about banning you. I suppose if you don't want to comment anymore, don't. It won't take a ban to accomplish that. I'm not sure what your preoccupation is with being banned. I certainly don't agree with everything that is said on this board, and nobody has banned me.

    I looked over the KEISIE web site, and I don't see anything that says "mill" to me. "Unaccredited", yes...but it has already been mentioned the school is unaccredited. You should know that in DL circles, being licensed in Arkansas really isn't a glowing endorsement of a school. That state is known as having lax licensing standards for distance learning institutions, and known and suspected mills have operated from the state in the past. I'm not saying that applies to KEISIE, but it's something you should know.

    The web site and the catalog available there (granted, I only scanned the 60-some pages) don't really indicate the mode of study at this school. Is it online? Correspondence? The web site doesn't say. Also, the fact that the degree programs are sold for a flat fee and payment can be made via Paypal raises some red flags. The reason for this is that some less-than-wonderful schools use the same type of pricing and payment scheme. At least indicate the price-per-credit hour, and perhaps offer a payment plan. The prices are quite low, which is a mark in KEISIE's favor, but students will want to know what they are getting for their money.

    Also, what kind of accreditation is KEISIE seeking? Regional accreditation? National accreditation? As you know, in the U.S. a degree from an unaccredited school really isn't worth much, with some very rare exceptions.

    I noticed that most of the degree programs are in the education field. I'm not sure how much weight a degree from an unaccredited school in South Korea would carry in the U.S. KEISIE does have its work cut out for it.

    Is KEISIE a religious school? I have found information online which indicates it maybe a theologically-based school. I have nothing against that, but I didn't see anything about this on the KEISIE web site. A post from you on another message board indicates KEISIE operates as "an autonomous extension of Trinity" and that "All of the campus coursework must be approved by Trinity offices to ensure that it is meets the same academic quality standards Trinity is guided by according to their accreditation with ICAATS and the nation of India regarding Schools of Theology."

    Perhaps this refers to Trinity Graduate School of Apologetics and Theology? Also ICAATS is not a recognized accreditor in the U.S. Interestingly, Trinity's degrees are also not acceptable in South Korea. I'm not sure I would trumpet the association with Trinity or the rigorous standards of an unrecognized accreditor.

    I'm not passing judgment, mind you. Just asking questions.
  14. tob55

    tob55 New Member


    Thanks to Bruce for the follow up email regarding my initial concerns with this thread. We have cleared up this situation, and now I will gladly answer your questions TCord1964

    Yes, it is among the States that raised flags with KEI also, but it was felt after doing the research that this State has the most favorable track record of updating and correcting this issues regarding distance education among the several States which were initially on the list.

    It is the very first benefit mentioned on the campus website:

    PayPal is being used simply because we are working internationally, and there needs to be one payment gateway which will convert everything into US Dollars. KEISIE offers an applicant options for making their payments through a virtual environment. The institution also has a Korean payment gateway, but it is in Korean. The logistics of setting up the numerous payment gateways around the world quickly become a nightmare for financial book keeping. BTW, our administrative liaison has researched the subject of payment methods, and it is common practice in most regions of the world to pay for either a complete degree program or academic year in advance to the study. Also, students can take single courses if they wish and make individual payments for single courses. The system is designed so students are only paying for the courses they take if that is what they want to do. In the case of a masters degree the total cost including tuition ($3,000) and administrative fees for admission and graduation ($250) is $3,250. There are two degree options: MA - 36 semester credits which when dividing the tuition by that number $3,000 / 36 = $83.33 per semester credit; M.Ed. - 39 semester credits which when dividing the tuition by that number $3,000 / 39 = $76.92. You can do the same for the doctoral programs to figure out the per credit fee.

    KEISIE is currently discussing both regional and national accreditation with several agencies. We are not allowed to engage in any discussion of the details, based on their rules, not ours. At the time when such information and evidence is available it will be posted.

    The focus of the Graduate School is "international education" which includes a much broader arena than the United States. The model in place is targeting global education which will include a number of current, updated and unique methodologies for education. The United States is only one of the countries of the world, and while as a US citizen I highly value the foundation of US academics, the rest of the world takes an entirely different view of education than what you or I would be accustomed to. Being out the the USA for the past 5 years has lead me to this understanding, and as I mentioned the reason US accreditation is being sought is so the institution will have that level of acceptance in the United States.

    KEISIE is an academic institution, not a religious institution. Initially, the Graduate School had an agreement with Trinity out of India, but it was realized that the support and accrediting of information and curriculum content would have less favorable recognition from the majority of global concerns in higher education. Those provisions were documented on the Internet in a number of places, but the whole environment of KEISIE has changed since its earlier position. The study is not religious study, but it includes various aspects of the educational continuum in the world. A few courses are included which discuss education from a religious perspective, but they are academic courses talking about religion rather than religious courses talking about academics. So much is said on the Internet that it is quite hard to go back if not impossible to go back and remove content that was written even just a few days or weeks ago.

    Honestly, KEISIE Graduate School has never considered seeking accreditation from ICAATS for the reason that the Graduate School is an institution of education, and not an institution of religion. The primary focus of ICAATS as an accrediting agency in India is the accrediting of religious institutions from what I understand.

    I hope this provides a quick glimpse at what the KEISIE Graduate School is working towards. I have read several personal stories from currently well established institutions of higher education that faced similar challenges of credibility as KEI and the KEISIE Graduate School now faces. Those stories for the most part ended in success, which I am sure will be the case with this institution.

    One more thing, Bruce seems quite satisfied from our discussion to get things worked out, so please don't make too much of what has been said initially by the administration and members of this forum. I initially came to this web forum to use it as an opportunity to discuss the benefits of what the institution is going to provide as it grows and develops. Give the Graduate School a chance without shooting it down, and in time the evidence you seek regarding the quality and utility of the degree programs offered by the institution will be verified.

    Korea Education Incorporated and KEISIE Graduate School of international Education have both taken a position of transparency, which is usually a good thing. However, there are always individuals "digging up" evidence to support a position. I guess the best resort for people is to ask questions first, and give people the opportunity to provide explanation before making a blanket statement about the legitimacy or legal standing of an institution. Maybe it's because people truly believe "if something seems too good to be true, then it probably isn't true at all."

    Thanks for your time. The lengthy post is one I am not afraid to provide, and hopefully one that will get us off to a better start than we had in the beginning. KEI exists for the purpose of providing a better service at less expense to students wanting to advance their training. Now we are seeking to go to an even higher level of service and performance. We urge everyone to send constructive suggestions and advice. We feel providing high quality at minimal cost should not be considered an out-of-date concept.
  15. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Staff Member

    As you know from my previous comment I am interested in your claim to be working together with the government of South Korea. What website can you point us to that indicates the schools acceptance by that government?
  16. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    Sent today:

    Dr. Linda Beene
    Arkansas Department of Higher Education
    114 E. Capitol Ave.
    Little Rock, AR 72201

    Dear Dr. Beene

    As you may know, I am the author of many books on distance and on-line degree-granting institutions, good and bad. (

    I am hoping to learn more about the KEISIE Graduate School of International Education, based in Korea, which states in its catalog (p. 7) that because their corporation is "fully licensed, chartered, authorized and approved" by the state of Arkansas, therefore, "In accordance with the governing laws of the State of Arkansas, KEISIE Graduate School offers degree programs through the private sector, internationally." (

    I would be most interested in learning if your office does indeed recognize and accept KEISIE as a degree-granting institution in Arkansas.

    Thank you most kindly for your assistance.


    John Bear, Ph.D. (Michigan State University)
    [email protected]
  17. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    That's certainly interesting.

    KEISIE's 'accreditation' page seems to be trying very hard to suggest that KEISIE has Korean degree-granting powers, without exactly saying it.

    I wonder if Korea is simply recognizing KEISIE as a foreign distance-learning institution that offers professional-development courses in Korea.

    Would the Koreans accept that KEISIE degrees are in fact domestic Korean degrees?
  18. tob55

    tob55 New Member


    Thanks to John and Bill for their observations. I wanted to give you some information that will quickly give you what you are looking for.

    John your reply should be in line with this correspondence we received from The ICAC which is the first stop when working towards full recognition in Arkansas:


    We are approved and chartered as a legal business corporation in the State of Arkansas to do the following things:



    Here is our Korean License and Authorization:


    However, we are not yet offering degrees as an accredited institution because we are seeking accreditation. Does this mean we cannot operate as a Graduate School, No. It simply means we are unable to offer our degrees as a certified, accredited institution until said time and point that we have achieved that accreditation. We are unaccredited. You folks have pointed this out. We recognize and understand this. As I mentioned in the previous entries, we are in our development, we are not operating illegally or without approval from the State of Arkansas as an online provider.

    This is no different than the numerous institutions in the United states that operate within the private sector that are not accredited. We are not trying to fly under the radar here, and I suspect the response I have received here is going to continue to no avail. I certainly had poor judgment in thinking this forum would be helpful. We are legally operating and doing our best to provide an educational option to people that is both effective and cost efficient for earning a degree in education.

    I want to thank all of you for the warm welcome we have received from this forum. Your efforts to make me personally feel a part of this community are appreciated.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2009
  19. Kizmet

    Kizmet 版主 Staff Member

    No answer to my question though. I'm guessing that I know why.
  20. tob55

    tob55 New Member


    I am puzzled that you somehow think I have some involvement with the government of South Korea, I have clearly stated the organization and business is licensed and registered with the Government. I have shown you this document. I have also stated we are unaccredited and operate in the private sector in the United States as well as other regions of the world until we receive accreditation. I have been open and honest with you, and yet you keep coming after me like a dog with a scent on fresh meat for the kill. Stop playing these games. I have provided answers and evidence to what the graduate school is doing and what our purpose for education is. Rather than being the dragon slayer, your intelligence would be better served helping people, not trying to tear an organization down and me personally without knowing anything about either. Your comments from the beginning have been neither fair nor impartial, which is one of the very foundational principles for anyone placed in a position of administration in a forum of this nature.
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 13, 2009

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