IT job training question

Discussion in 'IT and Computer-Related Degrees' started by Kizmet, Oct 15, 2018.

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  1. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    There are numerous system admin positions in every city. The idea is to get internship experience--paid or unpaid. Students can find them on their own:
    https://www.quora.com/How-do-I-get-an-internship-at-a-company-that-doesnt-have-an-internship-program
    There are many such topics; that is just the first result. Some others, as we have both said, are much more plentiful.
     
  2. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    No, there are only 3.
     
  3. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Since this is a general question on Quora that's not specific to IT, I'll say this. Sometimes, you can get lucky by asking; it depends on what kind of industry you're in.

    When I was trying to find a chemical dependency counselor internship (these are always paid, long-term jobs), there were hardly any openings in San Antonio. This older counselor gave me the outdated "pound the pavement" advice. So, I went to a bunch of treatment centers, and they all told me, if they aren't advertising an opening, then they don't have one.

    Years later, since I was already living in the Austin metro area for my doctoral program, I found an internship there. Several of my coworkers were commuting over an hour away because they couldn't find internships in San Antonio either.

    It doesn't hurt to ask, especially if you're willing to do unpaid, short-term stuff that employers might be more open to. Just hope that the company won't have you running errands and making coffee the entire time. This is one of the reasons why unpaid internships are generally worse than paid ones and don't really prepare people for the workforce. This is supported by research in the UK and the U.S.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2017/jul/29/unpaid-intern-damage-graduate-career-pay


    https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/16/why-your-unpaid-internship-makes-you-less-employable/#175f9a175017
     
  4. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Jumping in here because I think I have some relevant experience, however aged.

    1. I hear you regarding 12 an hour internships. Additionally, after being deeply involved the internship market over the last three years to help develop my son's skills pre college - I can tell you first hand that companies are not looking for 30 year old tech interns. Companies want kids in college or even before then, that they can pay little and shape into perfect candidates for their entry-level roles before they get their degrees such that they can create their human resource pipelines from their preferred schools.

    2. The viable options for internships in the 30 year old range are technology bootcamps that are tied to placement firms or placement outcomes. You get skills over 12 weeks and interviews with firms. It's not unusual for these types of places to have graduate placement numbers in the 90th percentile, but in all cases you're either paying up front or paying a percentage of your first-year salary.

    3. You're right about cyber - it's not an entry-level field and where it is entry-level there are conditions (like coming up as a 20 year old out of an established cyber program and recruited OR coming out of military service with an applicable specialty and a clearance that gets you into the defense industry) that are not attainable by most career-changers. Corporate cyber career changer needs a background in another tech discipline first and some connections to transfer in to a role. Note that I'm not saying that's the only way, but it's the high percentage way.

    Recommendation (if you're looking for it) is to jump in to a help desk role and be super diligent and nice to the folks around you. When you get a chance to chat with folks from other disciplines (network/code) during escalation work/cafeteria be nice. Folks will start thinking of you when that next role in their area comes up. Take advantage of their tuition reimbursement and get them to pay for your education. You'll end up having a great career and it may happen for your so quickly that you didn't see it coming.

    Like I said before, I started in Help Desk, made the mistake of moving into help desk management, (but don't regret it) and eventually did enough consulting work on the side to develop front-end coding and infrastructure skills. Being useful and eventually nice.. got me transferred into cyber. Four degrees later and working on the PhD now with only 30k in student loan debt due to employers. It is possible.

    Last thing is I like helping people along, even if the distance of the Internet reduces that help down to just being a place to rant or ask questions. If you ever want to do either of those things, feel free to PM.

    Be well
    ITJD

    PS. One of my degrees is a networking degree. You're right, it is horrible in today's world with today's recruiters. Avoid it at all costs if you don't already have it. However, don't associate the value of the degree to the outcome of your friend. Too many other variables. Back in 2007 I did just fine with it.
     
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  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Your advice is in line with what I've heard from others. I know my ex-boyfriend's situation is not representative of the typical reasons why networking degrees aren't all that valuable. But, as you said, they are, indeed, not that valuable in the current job market. Colleges love offering cash cow degrees, and they aren't offering many networking degrees because not that many people want them.

    I'm nice in person. You have to be as a counselor or someone working with murderers. LOL. But, a woman also can't be a pushover when working in prisons or male-dominated professions i.e. law enforcement, IT, or engineering.

    If I ever get an entry-level IT job that can cover the high rents in Austin, then that would be great. However, that isn't my priority, or I would just move to the Dallas area. My interests are mainly in public health, environmental safety, and emergency management. I've contemplated studying data science only because it would be helpful as an epidemiologist.
     
  6. ITJD

    ITJD Active Member

    Thanks Sanantone -

    I think most people are nice in person. In my own case it was a learned skill. Just didn't have a good upbringing. At the risk of taking the thread on a tangent, I had read a journal article once about the different types of difficult people and how you could break down their types a few different ways.

    - Situationally difficult - Those folks who were only being difficult when their situation forced their hand.
    - Strategically difficult - Those folks who hoped to achieve a goal by being difficult
    - Simply difficult - Those folks who were predisposed to create havoc.

    The focus of that article was to gauge which one your adversary was so you could align yourself to overcome the problems they pose. Most people can understand the first category and have increasing levels of hate for the other two. My basis for "nice" is a work on this article but with positivity in mind.

    - Situationally nice - The trap people fall in to as it's apparent that you've an agenda.
    - Strategically nice - What you want to be doing, looks like simply nice but has a professional edge. If you get accused of having an agenda, it's deniable.
    - Simply nice - Really hard to do in the workplace no matter who you are, because you get run over. It's reserved for friends, family and select situations.

    I think that instead of gauging an adversary like you would with the first examples, this perspective swing allows you to gauge personal response. I'm only using it here because I want to be clear about my intentions when using the term "nice". It's nuanced.

    Be well
    ITJD
     

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