IT job training question

Discussion in 'IT and Computer-Related Degrees' started by Kizmet, Oct 15, 2018.

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  1. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I've looked for entry-level IT work everywhere. I'm very good at hunting down jobs, and I know how to get to the Google career page. I'm a grown woman with multiple degrees in a variety of fields; I'm not an idiot. Sysadmin internships aren't common in my area. Most of the people here started out in help desk. The internships here are geared toward programming.

    I'm not discouraging young people from doing internships. While you're living with your parents, it's the opportune time to do temporary, low-paying work. For older people, it's not going to work unless you want to live with roommates or financially depend upon a significant other. I most definitely will not quit my government job to work two to six months for $12 an hour. Plus, a summer internship would NOT get me the 1+ years of experience that most of the system administrator jobs require.

    Are you a current or former system administrator? I've talked to people who actually have these jobs, and they all recommended help desk to get your foot in the door. If employers are putting in their job ads that they're looking for support experience, then I'm going to take their word for it.

    My ex-boyfriend was required to do an internship while in school, and he did temp work after graduating. Retail ended up being more stable for him. This was at the beginning of the recession, but I made more than he did without a degree driving a metro bus.
     
    Last edited: Feb 10, 2019
  2. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    Just a couple quick points:
    1. They will not be plentiful in every area, and more are indeed geared towards programming, but are in every area of specialization. I don't want this to be specific to system administrator. They are out there if a person is able and willing to travel. Being location-bound will limit options. There are internships in many areas of IT/computer science.
    2. Pay can be much more than $12; not always the case. Unpaid is a possibility as well to get experience. It is less than ideal, but sacrifices may be necessary if one really wants it bad enough.
    3. The recession will make it harder for your ex. In some areas, there just are not as many jobs if market is over saturated. What was his internship and temp work in? It is hard to say if it is relevant. There is an overabundance of IT people in some metro areas, so there could be more competition even if more jobs, particularly in a recession when people may be losing jobs and few if any new IT jobs. Sometimes a location is just not going to produce results...internships or jobs.

    This will be my final message on this.
     
  3. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You didn't answer the most important question. Are you a current or former system administrator? Maybe I just haven't been paying much attention to you, but I know nothing about your education or experience.

    My advice to young people looking to enter the IT field is to talk to people in your area who are doing the job you want. If you can't find anyone, then go to Reddit or some other forum with a lot of tech professionals. I talked to people who ACTUALLY work as system administrators, and most of them started out in help desk and similar support jobs. You will also see a lot of people say this on Reddit.

    Sometimes, you have to move to find permanent, full-time work in your field. However, I would not advise anyone to move far away for temporary or part-time employment. That's irresponsible. When I lived in San Antonio, we had so many people moving there without a decent job lined up that they overwhelmed our food bank.

    The internship culture is detrimental to people who come from economically disadvantaged backgrounds. When you're responsible for feeding your siblings, you can't afford to quit your job to do unpaid labor for two or three months. And, if employers are looking for years of experience rather than months, then a summer internship is not going to be sufficient.
     
  4. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    No, I am not, nor would I wish to be. Again, all I can say is to find an internship. They can get help desk or other entry level experience as well.
    Not every job is going to be suitable, so clearly will not get a job asking for years of experience if they only have a summer internship. They need an entry level position, which the internship can help them secure. Irrelevant entry level experience, such as help desk, will can be nice but may only get them so far. Someone with a CISCO cert or a relevant degree and help desk experience will be better than a random person with none of the above.
    The internship cultural may be challenging for different reasons, but it is what it is. I did not invent it. I am only providing information for a clear pathway. Not everyone will be able to pursue it. Numerous young people travel for internships as needed, and that allows for a clear pathway.
     
  5. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    There are millions of college students, and while paid internships are nice, there is a lot of competition for them. Unpaid internships are often easier to come by, but they don't really increase one's chances of getting a job.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/01/16/why-your-unpaid-internship-makes-you-less-employable/#73036f677501

    Help desk is not as irrelevant as you're making it out to be. It involves troubleshooting operating system and network problems.

    I'm not sure how I can make this clearer. The entry-level jobs often require experience. There aren't many sysadmin jobs that don't require experience. You can't gain experience directly in an occupation if that occupation requires experience, even for entry-level positions. People usually get their related IT experience in lower-level jobs, such as help desk.
     
  6. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

  7. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Watch out dlbb, your pants are on fire. It was clearly not your final message. In any case, this innocent inquiry has drifted a bit off course. People are recommending solutions to problems that don't exist. Next thing you know there will be suggestions about doctoral programs. We are talking about a high school kid who's going to work and go to school (hybrid) while living at home. She will earn an Associates on her way to a Bachelors. She will be getting some experience on the way. If she can make the time management piece work then she'll play D3 soccer. Thanks for all the suggestions.
     
  8. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Yes, facts are important; that's why it's important to read well. I never said that there are millions of computer science graduates. The OP asked about IT support jobs, not computer science, so I don't know why you think everything in this thread has to be specific to computer science majors. I said that there are millions of college students because there are millions of college students. That IS a fact. It was a general statement about college students looking for internships, but even if you try to make it specifically about the IT field, people with computer science degrees aren't the only ones applying for IT internships.

    Here's another fact. You didn't even link to the number of computer science majors. You linked to the number of people who graduated with computer science degrees in 2016. Those are two different things.

    What degrees do you have, what was your major, and what kind of work have you done? I still don't know.
     
  9. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    You strongly implied there was a high number. No, masses of other students will not be applying for IT internships. I am glad you can distinguish between graduates and current majors; I did not know I needed to spell that out, as the page speaks for itself. Not sure why you think I am speaking specifically about CS. I would not heed your statements against internships and other advice. Good luck, but I cannot understand your desire to destroy threads with irrelevant information.
     
  10. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    There is almost always a lot of competition for desirable internships regardless of the field. If internships were so easy to get, more people would be doing them. Your first post in this thread was irrelevant. The OP asked about a high school grad looking for an entry-level job, and you went off on a tangent about getting a job as a system administrator even though she has no chance of getting one at this stage. You also recommended the job without even knowing what the student is interested in.

    The reason why I pointed out the difference between majors and graduates is because of your lack of comprehension. I talked about the total number of college students, and you posted an irrelevant link about the number of computer science graduates saying that "facts matter." Well, reading matters, too.

    Still, you won't say what you do, what you've done, or what your education is in. All you do is hop from thread to thread spreading misinformation about higher education, and people have to constantly correct you.
     
  11. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    You continue to misrepresent to suit your whims. Obviously system administrator was a suggestion in reference to possible long term career ambitions, rather than the help desk that she was been recommended as a career. Did you not know a high school student would need to go to college for that? I have pointed out the distinctions between majors a number of times; your vastly superior intellect and comprehension missed that. Of course I am wrong, and you are right as always. As always you are the expert in all things higher education. Good luck with your dissertation. I am going to figure out how to make it so I don't see your comments.
     
  12. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Before you posted, no one recommended help desk as a career. It was brought up as an entry-level job. What you're doing here is similar to what you did in the test out thread that you threw off topic.

    I'm not an IT expert, and you don't seem to be either. Common sense would direct someone to talk to a person who knows what he or she is talking about. So, I will say it again. If you're interested in a particular IT career, talk to people in that career. Don't listen to someone who won't even tell people his or her educational/professional background.
     
  13. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    Yes, take the advice of the "brilliant" person who says she is not an IT expert and yet with all her superior abilities cannot find system administrator internships anywhere outside her local area and thus concludes they do not exist, when they very clearly do. And of course that is just one internship, whereas I spoke at length about many variety of internships for all manners of different areas of specialization. Take the advice of the person who discourages internships because too many of the "millions" of college students will apply for the internships that clearly state the student must be in a related bachelor's/graduate program, and thus she concludes they will be too competitive for any qualified student to get. So why bother? Take the advice of the person who discourages internships simply because she feels they discriminate against the "economically disadvantaged" or because of her ex's experiences over a decade ago in the recession. Take the advice of the person who discourages internships because she feels it would be ill advised for a student to temporarily move somewhere and earn a relatively high wage (up to $18-20+) as well as possibly housing accommodation.

    Have not gotten around to figuring out how to block you, but give me time.
     
  14. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    Thanks, I will.
     
    dlbb likes this.
  15. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    Your reading comprehension is very poor. I never said that I couldn't find sysadmin internships outside of my area. I never cared to search for internships outside of my area because I've had decent-paying government jobs for the past few years. Government jobs are not easy to get, and only an idiot would give one up for temporary employment that won't even meet the minimum requirements for a new career field.

    I also did not discourage internships. As a matter of fact, I said they were a good idea for young people with no financial obligations. I did, however, post research on how one's chances of getting a good job aren't really increased by doing unpaid internships. I also NEVER said that sysadmin internships don't exist. Which school awarded your degree so that I can tell everyone to avoid it? They clearly award degrees to people who can't read. Do you even have a degree? You won't say.

    Actually, there are many internships that don't require a related major, even in IT. I know of a psychology major who did an IT internship. But, "related" can still include a wide variety of majors such as mathematics, physics, CIS, MIS, IT, computer science, electrical engineering, etc.

    My advice to talk to an actual IT expert instead of a person with an unknown background should not be taken? That sounds pretty dumb. Anyone with common sense would agree with that.

    What people should not do is take advice from you. You can't read well, and you're hiding your professional/educational background for a reason. You can't even find the ignore option on the forum, which I have easily done. I do have a computer information systems concentration, but I don't think that knowledge is required to know how to use a forum.
     
  16. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    For older people (and even some younger people) who aren't going to break your lease or sell your house to take a summer job, there are alternative ways to get some experience on your resume. I'm the IT officer for a Civil Air Patrol squadron, and I'm about to start teaching STEM classes to cadets. Now that I'm a full member of the Coast Guard Auxiliary, I can join the cybersecurity team that works alongside active duty members. When I have time, I plan to join the Texas State Guard because they have a cybersecurity team, and all TSG members are considered part-time, state employees. However, my focus will be obtaining a public health or safety job after I finish my master's in medical science.
     
  17. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    The fact I choose not to share doesn't mean I don't, and your personal attacks do not change the fact that some of your information is incorrect or that your advice is generally poor and misguided in this regard. Of course with your superior intellect, your knowledge of ad hominem attacks would let you know that resorting to them suddenly makes your arguments right, correct? When you can't win your arguments on merits, attack the messenger? You may want to brush up there.

    You have all these excuses why you cannot do an internship or someone similar to you, but yet you have no interest in internships. My advice is specific to students who are interested in careers, not people who want to easily test out of everything and have only limited knowledge in the area. No, you cannot test out of an internship.

    I have read and perfectly understood all the misinformation and flawed arguments you have shared. It has been an ordeal to wade through it, and I have pointed out the many errors. The fact that I have done so does not mean that I have poor comprehension or that my advice is not valid. I don't see the point in repeating myself endlessly, so I can refer you to reread the posts and apply your allegedly vastly superior comprehension. It is clear that as with many threads, your intent is only to waste time and destroy this, when I tried to provide valuable information about internships.

    You are working on a Ph.D. in criminal justice, and now you are teaching STEM students while pursuing a medical science degree? Good luck. How do I know you have done any of this? How do I know you have completed any degrees? Just because you claim to? Doesn't that seem a bit much? Give it a rest. I take it for face value have some knowledge in the areas you talk about, but you have provided no verification.
     
  18. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    You have repeatedly claimed that I have said things that I have not said, so you have demonstrated that you do not understand.

    Indeed pulls job openings from around the Internet. All one has to do is put quotes around the terms they want to search to ensure getting relevant results.

    "system administration" "internship" - 86 results nationwide

    "system administrator" internship" - 19 results nationwide

    "systems administrator" "internship" - 25 results nationwide

    "systems administration" "internship" - 65 results nationwide

    Now, let's compare to other IT and CS-related careers.

    "data science" "internship" - 725 results

    "Software engineer" "internship" - 620 results

    I think you get the gist.

    If you were truly following my convos, you would know that I finished all my classes for the PhD program and that I lost motivation to work on my dissertation because I have no interest in teaching criminal justice students. They aren't very bright, and that's supported by their low test scores in comparison to other majors. I volunteer a couple of hours a week with the Civil Air Patrol. I volunteer a few hours a month with the Coast Guard Auxiliary. I spend about 10 hours a week working on my second master's degree at University of Florida.

    I don't expect you to reveal your identity. If you stated your education, I'd take your word for it. You're on a distance education forum, so if you're going to give advice, it would help your credibility to state your background. Otherwise, all I know is that you've made erroneous statements about accreditation, and you have unrealistic expectations of how much internships typically pay and how many offer housing accommodations. If you want, I can show you a copy of my Txstate transcript with my personal info redacted.
     
  19. dlbb

    dlbb Active Member

    I did mention how to do it via Google, as you will get other results that you will not see. It was not a swipe at you or an attempt at being patronizing, just helpful. Network Administration Intern, intern Network engineer, Technology Services intern, intern Network Administration Technician are a few of others that come up. Some places may only have things listed on web sites internally and do not send out notices, which I do not believe is picked up by those sources, although I could be wrong. i am sure they pick up on some places that list things on their web sites, but doubt they cover all. Others may not have things advertised, but might do so if you inquire, particularly if unpaid. There are plenty of opportunities, some ideal, some not. Some pay a higher wage; some do not. This is as a rule my true for STEM internships than outside.

    I trust your education and was only going from memory of what I had read in the past, as you were quite active with criminal justice. I think this and your post will nicely end any of our comments for this thread. Thank you.
     
  20. sanantone

    sanantone Well-Known Member

    I have alerts set up for Indeed, GovernmentJobs.com, and various government and private companies. When I checked Google yesterday, they only had one fellowship in my city, and it wasn't in sysadmin. They had nothing listed as an internship. I was on the Dell website last week. Of course, my city is not representative of every city, but it's one of the few outside of Silicon Valley that's considered a tech hub. Indeed gives a good sample of what's going on nationwide. They don't pick up every single job, but they do pick up over 3 million of them. So, even if Indeed is only picking up half of the IT jobs out there, it's readily apparent that sysadmin internships aren't nearly as common as internships in some other IT fields.
     

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