Is the EdS Considered a Terminal Degree?

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by SE Texas Prof, Apr 21, 2010.

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  1. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Says who? Of course it's significant what a college or university says about its own credentials! Colleges and universities that award Associate degrees call them degrees.

    Then why do they keep stamping my passport when I go there? Seriously, having lived in both places, I can assure you that the English-speaking Caribbean is decidedly not American. Caricom countries inherited the British educational system, not the American one.

    Indeed, but I'm not referring to undergraduate certificates, I'm referring to the Foundation degree, which is a two year degree offered by universities in the UK.

    Not at all. You're claiming that a particular academic practice isn't real if it's not found in other countries, and I'm providing an example of a different America-only practice that's universally recognized. An academic practice is either not real because only Americans do it, or it isn't, but you have to stick with one.

    You said "people" without specifying. Now you're specifying hiring managers, and conveniently I've been one of those. I would certainly agree that in most cases an Associate's degree isn't as attractive to hiring managers as a Bachelor's degree, but that's like saying a fifty dollar bill isn't really money because it doesn't buy as much as a hundred dollar bill. Besides, a Bachelor's degree in Medieval Latvian Poetry might not be as valued by most hiring managers as one in Accounting, but that doesn't mean the former isn't a degree.

    Neither is it uncommon for people to have an Associate's in one area and a Bachelor's in another, like you do.
     
  2. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

  3. BMWGuinness

    BMWGuinness New Member

    Yes, a friend of mine is a public school counselor and he said the Ed.S. for him would be a pay upgrade.
     
  4. BMWGuinness

    BMWGuinness New Member

  5. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    That depends on the school. At La Sierra U. the Ed.S. required 45 quarter units post-masters. The Ed.D. required an additional 45 quarter hours (including 12 dissertation) post-Ed.S. (90 units total).
     
  6. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    Well, it's not the UNITED STATES of America, but the Caribbean it's definitely America, the continent America.

    Outside of the US, pretty much every single habitant of this continent calls it "America" and the country "United States".

    In Brazil we have a new type of of degree (it exists since around 2005 I think), that it seems inspired by the American Associate and the 3 Year European BA.

    It's called a "Tecnologo degree" and it takes 2 to 3 years, depending on the discipline.
     
  7. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    Half of South America population speaks Portuguese (yes, Brazil constitute half of South America population), so it's wrong to generalize anything from the Spanish speaking part of South America as something the whole South America does.

    In Brazil "um tecnico" (not el), it's someone that has a trade school diploma, not a degree. Where a "um tecnólogo" (2 or 3 year degree) it's the equivalent of what you described as "el técnico" in the spanish speaking countries.
     
  8. Boethius

    Boethius Member

    Noted.

    The equivalent term in Portuguese is "um tecnólogo?" Again, noted, but this is a distinction without a substantive difference. Specifically, a friend of mine earned a two-year engineering technician degree from a Venezuelan University. His professional title was "Técnico." He did two more years in the States and earned his Bachelor in Mechanical Engineering.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 28, 2012
  9. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Wow! A two and a half year old thread!
     
  10. HikaruBr

    HikaruBr Member

    My bad, I think I wasn't clear enough. In Brazil, "técnico" is a high school level technician, "tecnólogo" is someone with a higher education (college level) degree that last 2 to 3 years.

    It's really a mix between the american associate and the European 3 years BA. Because like the European BA, a tecnologo can go directly to a Master or graduate certificate. I think (correct me if I'm wrong) you can't go to a Master degree in the US only with an Associate.

    But like the Associate degree in the US, there are a few colleges (not that many really) in Brazil that have a system where you get the tecnólogo degree in the first two years and a BA after four years.
     
  11. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Split hairs all you want. The associate's isn't a degree. Take a global view.
     
  12. RobbCD

    RobbCD New Member

    You seem to have left out a word. Your sentence should read "The associate's degree isn't a deegree". Arguing that a degree is not a degree is silly, though, so I see why you left it out.

    Just from my personal experience the Connecticut State Board of Regents, who issued my associate's degree, would disagree with your opinion that a degree is not a degree. They are the local (to me) authority whose judgement matters on this subject.

    I disagree with you also and think that the associate of science degree that I have is a degree, but I do see your point about the very limited utility of the associates degree and freely admit that I dropped it from my resume the minute that I completed my bachelor's degree.
     
  13. RBTullo

    RBTullo Member

    Although I agree that the Associate Degree is primarily an American creation, I believe the lines are becoming blurred when you consider that the British have both 3 yr and 4 yr BA/ BS degrees as well as what they call a Foundation Degree which seems to mimic the Associate Degree.
     
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Steve said this, too. Perhaps you are both on to something. But.....let's look at it colloquially, too. When someone says they're working on their degree, they almost never mean--and you don't think they mean--an associate's. When a job requires a degree, the associate's isn't what they're talking about. If an associate's is what is acceptable, it is explicitly stated.

    I guess the argument--of which I am a frequent participant--is kind of silly. But here are my two simple points. First, the associate's is almost always an interim event on the way to a bachelor's degree. Second, the EdS isn't a degree because it is specific to one field: education.
     
  15. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    The BEd, MEd, and EdD are also specific to one field.
     
  16. Anthony Pina

    Anthony Pina Active Member

    This is from the U.S. Department of Education...

    Structure of the U.S. Education System: Intermediate Graduate Qualifications

    The U.S. higher education system awards several qualifications that represent studies and research beyond the master’s degree but that are not the equivalent of a research doctorate. Most of these qualifications are in professional fields of study and represent a level of education corresponding to advanced professional standing.

    Regulations governing these intermediate graduate qualifications are the responsibility of the institution offering the program and the appropriate professional and accrediting authorities.

    FREQUENTLY ENCOUNTERED INTERMEDIATE GRADUATE TITLES

    NOTE: This is only a partial list of such titles for informational purposes, not an exhaustive or official list.

    Certificates

    Advanced Certificate (A.C.)/Advanced Graduate Certificate (A.G.C.)/Advanced Graduate
    Specialist Certificate (A.G.S.C.)/Certificate of Advanced Studies (C.A.S.)/Certificate of Advanced Graduate Studies (C.A.G.S.)
    Certificate of Advanced Study in Business (C.A.S.B.)/Certificate of Advanced Management
    Studies (C.A.M.S.)
    Certificate of Advanced Professional Studies (C.A.P.S.)
    Specialist Certificate in Gerontology (S.C.G.)
    Specialist in Psychology (Psy.S.)
    Specialist in Library Science (S.L.S.)
    Specialist in Counseling (Sp.C.)
    Specialist in Public Administration (S.P.A.)
    Specialist in School Administration (S.S.A.)
    Specialist in School Psychology (S.S.P.)

    Diplomas

    Artist’s Diploma (A.D.)
    Professional Engineer (P.E.)
    Chemical Engineer (Ch.E.)
    Civil Engineer (C.E.)
    Electrical Engineer (E.E.)
    Graduate Diploma in Management (G.D.M.)
    Graduate Diploma in Public Administration (G.D.P.A.)
    Graduate Diploma in Taxation (G.D.T.)
    Graduate Performance Diploma (G.P.D.) [performing arts]
    Professional Diploma (P.D.)

    Degrees

    Doctor of Ministry (D.Min.)
    Doctor of Psychology (Psy.D/D.Psy.)*
    Education Specialist (Ed.S./Sp.Ed.)
    Licentiate in Sacred Theology (S.T.L.)

    *A degree for clinical, school and counseling psychologists intending to enter professional practice rather than conduct research.
     
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I have to assume you're purposefully mis-reading the point.

    Those degrees (yes, degrees!) are bachelor's, master's, and doctorate, respectively. Turn to almost any other academic discipline and you will see the exact same hierarchy. But where's the "specialist" degree in all those other disciplines? Tony shows a few examples--almost all related to the field of education--but the titles are all over the place. Who knows what is contained in a specialist program, a certificate program, a diploma program, and where they sit in the hierarchy? (In fact, many "diploma" and "certificate" programs are actually based on undergraduate study.)

    Note that in Tony's post, the specialist thingies are listed as "certificates," not "degrees."

    The EdS is not a degree. The title "specialist" doesn't exist across the board. It is not a prerequisite for a higher degree (the doctorate). It is a post-graduate certificate that, like many graduate-level certificates, carries college credit. Well, those thingies aren't degrees either. They look like consolation prizes for ABDs. Or, like their associate-level brethren, a form of recognition for students who don't go all the way to a degree. I wonder what we can call half a master's? Oh, yeah, a "diploma," "certificate," or maybe something else?

    The associate's and EdS are off-ramps for early exits.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 30, 2012
  18. Jonathan Whatley

    Jonathan Whatley Well-Known Member

  19. ryoder

    ryoder New Member

    Just because someone doesn't know about it or think its a degree doesn't make it so.
    The EdS is a degree, period. Yes its a lesser advanced post-graduate degree but it is a degree nonetheless.
    Is it a terminal degree, maybe. At my local USF, the EdS is not awarded once you get to 36 credits in your PhD, its something you enter into knowingly and work with your committee and chair to complete. It has a 9 credit thesis portion which may result in publication but need not.
     
  20. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    No it's not, ellipsis ellipsis, ellipsis it just isn't. (And certainly three ellipses trump one period!)
     

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