Is An MBA Worth It? After Covid-19, Absolutely Not.

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by TEKMAN, Jul 9, 2020.

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  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    An excellent ROI decision, methinks. You'll do well in an MBA course. I hope you get your desired reward.

    As I said before - all MBA decisions should be basically ROI. - or thoroughly analyzed for ROI if the decision has been already made for other reasons. Other degrees -it's different.
     
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And you have a workable plan to make that last line happen. Forgot that. Sorry.
     
  3. JoshD

    JoshD Active Member

    Go to a top business school and that last line is laid out for you. Still have to do the networking, interviewing, prepping, etc. but the brand brings employers that’ll pay top dollar for elite talent.
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - if you can get into a top school, pay accordingly and do that work the right way. That narrows the field to a suitably small number. The rest ... their future might be so bright they need shades - or it might not be. If they can't do your Plan A - then they'd better have a DARN good plan B.
     
    JoshD likes this.
  5. JoshD

    JoshD Active Member

    Always good to have a Plan B!
     
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes. But what about when it's over? ... Tell me it IS going to be over -- at some point. Maybe not like before ... but over. Please!
     
  7. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    But everyone needs to understand people, information, decision making, etc.

    I wasn't suggesting that an MBA was the only path to learn all of the above.

    Money, fame, and good looks.

    At least, that's what I imagine an MBA gives you, since I haven't found a way to get them without an MBA.
     
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    My mistake then. You said "for anyone" - so I thought you were. Agreed. It's not the only path.

    There are plenty of MBAs without these attributes. Some with more than one MBA - repeat offenders, I call 'em. Some of them are far from good-looking - and some are pushing 40 (from the wrong end) and still live -by necessity- in their parents' basements. More than a handful are guilty on all three counts. No more guarantees than with any other degree.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    You'll find a way to money, fame and good looks, Maniac. You're hard-working, creative, educated and extremely unpredictable. That all helps. :)
     
    Maniac Craniac likes this.
  10. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    What makes the MBA different? I have one and I'm unclear on the distinction.

    My MBA enabled me to experience things in m profession I would have not otherwise had the opportunity to pursue. I don't know about the ROI, though.
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    That makes you different from the masses (of MBA aspirants at the time) Rich. I believe that by far the majority of people signing on for an MBA are doing it for job related reasons. Signing up because it will lead to a job, a better job or advancement at the present job - all with the important (to them) material rewards. At one time, that end result was perhaps a bit more certain than it is now.

    Your aims and experience were different - and I understand that. I should have said ROI is (properly) the first concern of most prospective MBAs - not all. A remark or two from prospective / actual MBA or related degree students in this thread tend to confirm my belief. E.G the successful Duke / Fuqua applicant and the gentleman from a smaller Southern city who has looked at his marketplace and considered his options.
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2020
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    How so? I did an MBA because it was the "next thing" on my educational path to promote my career. I don't recall doing it for any reasons any different from any other MBA student. It was precisely for "job related reasons." Very materialistic, and with very concrete results.

    Perhaps I don't understand....
     
  13. nosborne48

    nosborne48 Well-Known Member

    Wait...you mean my LL.M. DIDN'T deliver "money, fame and good looks"? I want my money back!:mad:
     
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  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Now I'm really confused, Rich. You said earlier your reward was in career experiences etc. and, to quote you "ROI? I don't know." I took that as meaning ROI wasn't a big concern, in your case. Now you say it was "precisely for job-related reasons, very materialistic." Until I read this, I thought you were arguing against my hypothesis that MBA seekers are - and should be - chiefly concerned with ROI.

    If your MBA decision was "very materialistic etc." (and I have no doubt it was - I believe you) it supports my thinking - that most, even almost ALL MBA seekers enrol for work-related reasons - i.e. the ROI of a better (and better-paid ) job. And that's the difference, as I see it, between enrolment for an MBA vs. many other degrees. As it should be. I think we're now back to exactly where we were before . There is a difference (almost exclusive emphasis on ROI) in the primary motive of most MBA seekers vs. those seeking many other degrees. As I said - that's fine. I'm not sure we ever had a disagreement here...
     
  15. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I don't know that we disagree or not. But I think the concept of "job-related" is a bit more broad than is "ROI." I did mine to advance my career. I don't recall any of my peers doing it for the sheer learning, but nor do I recall anyone doing the ROI on it, either. I just don't see that it is any different than pursuing any other kind of degree. One can learn from almost anywhere, but one goes to a university to get a degree.
     
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes, it can be. Depends on the beholder, I think. Perhaps my stance is the reverse. I tend to think of ROI in broader, more inclusive terms , possibly. I include in "ROI" any tangible benefits from the investment - and career advancement is tangible. Also, career advancement almost always includes monetary advancement (as it should) , so I think my position is somewhat justified - or at least justifiable. No matter, this is a friendly discussion, not a competition.

    Nosborne48 used to quote a well-used ROI yardstick, often applied to law school, but useful (I think) in some other situations: "Do not pay more for a degree than you expect to earn in your first year after earning it."

    Cheers!
     
    Last edited: Jul 13, 2020
  17. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    For business types, ROI is a financial calculation. That's why I like to use ROE ("return on expectations" instead).
     
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  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Perhaps the Canada Revenue Agency is partially responsible for my inclusion of all things "tangible." Quite a few years ago, our Tax Gurus told us that any tangible employee benefits we received would henceforth be taxable - and they would be the judges of tangibility. Things to be taxed included personal use of a company-provided car, insurance premiums paid by the employer, etc. For the last 30 years, I have been taxed on company-paid premiums on an employer-paid life insurance policy.

    Small potatoes. I can usually bury the tax bite in other exemptions, but still a yearly reminder of what "tangible" means.
     
    Last edited: Jul 14, 2020
  19. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    This thread has caused me to consider something really valuable: the experience.

    So much energy is spent on which school is better (it largely doesn't matter), how much it is (important overall, but the differences usually aren't the issue), and so forth.

    But what about the learning experience? What about your engagement with the university?

    Levicoff and I both speak joyfully about our respective experiences at Union. What we went through (individually; we've never met) matters as much as the degrees we earned. I'm proud of my connections to National and Leicester, too. They were unique experiences and I love my associations with all three schools.

    But I don't feel that way about Excelsior. And I don't think it's because of its transfer from public to private, nor the name change. Nor do I feel that way about the Community College of the Air Force, which was a nearly identical experience. So I think you (Johann) are onto something important. For me, Regents was about using the degree. Obtaining it was a crafted and well-executed plan (two bachelors degree in 21 months at age 20). But it wasn't exactly an engaging experience. But I was enlisted at the time and living in the dorms under conditions identical (except the drug testing) to how an on-campus college kid lives. That's where my social development occurred while transacting the degree process! Treated as one thing, it was a heckuva one thing.

    Getting back to this board, I really enjoy talking about process and connections. For example, I've seen a lot of ads recently from UoP about being "a Phoenix." Well, I worked there full-time for a year and taught as an adjunct for another two and I don't feel like a "Phoenix." But I truly, truly hope its graduates do. And I wonder how deeply some people consider (or don't) that connection, that the degree they earn and the school they earn it from will help identify them for the rest of their lives.

    Speaking of connections, I've taught for schools with sports mascots called the Aztecs, the Bruins, even the Gorloks. But none of the schools I've graduated from--not even Leicester--have had sports nicknames. No CCAF Airmen or Regents Rockets or even Union....uh....er....Pensioners, or something. Gotta work on that....
     
  20. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    I see. I meant that anyone would benefit from a study of all of the various topics and themes I mentioned as being included in a business education. There are certainly many other ways to arrive at the same goal. The fact that the librarians in my own and all my neighboring towns know me by name might attest to that fact :cool:

    Thank you for the kind words, Johann.

    I'm not actually interested in fame, and I don't know if I'll ever have money, but at least I married into good looks :emoji_innocent:
     
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