Ireland's Chief Science Advisor has bogus degree

That is incorrect, at least for the case of PWU which is the specific institution under discussion. Only the business degree has California approval. Everything else is bestowed by PWU Hawaii. (As was explained by Rich earlier in this very thread.)

 

No, the BPPVE did not "approve" this degree. PWU was never "approved" to award degrees in that area. If PWU (California) awarded the degree, it either did so under the old "authorized" category or it was awarded illegally. Of course, it could have been awarded by PWU (Hawaii), owned by the same operators and run from a California address.

Again, such a degree did not come from a California-Aprroved program. Period.

 

Rich you're right. What is in question here though? Is it a PWU degree or the specifics of his degree? And if it was authorized what is the difference? Whether approved or authorized the BPPVE gave credibilty to these schools. And by allowing educational credit Cal licensing boards further add to the confusion.

The James gang seems to love to rip into you and Dr. Bear when they should direct their wrath at the BPPVE. The fact that California was a DL diploma mill playground in the 70's and 80's was a direct result of the ineptness of the BPPVE.

Why do some of these schools survive today? Do they get it? Any CPU grads up for refunds? Why not? Their degree is unuseble. Their professional name is disgraced if they use the degree. Any apologies from the BPPVE?

It should be no surprise that thousands of DL students attended these schools. When they are state approved/authorized ,accepted for licensing and listed in college guides people will attend them. Given that I kind of think it's not fair to ridicule the degree holder. It's the BPPVE that is the culprit. The less than wonderfuls merely took what the BPPVE gave them. And they gave them plenty.



Dan

 

We're getting a little off track but in response to FWD, I think it should be understood that California has a long history of generating accredited schools from its approved ranks. A good example is a list provided by Bill Dayson showing many schools that evolved in that manner. There is a good bit of experimentation and innovation within that State. Some schools have left the State in the face of the approval standards, others have gone on to become recognized at the US DOE level, others have folded or have been forced to close by the State, others have remained approved but yet sufficient for professional licensing e.g. law and psychology. The argument that BPPVE isn't doing its job or that CA approved education is invalid is not valid. There is also legislation being considered at the Federal level now that would permit State approval (whose standards and procedures qualify) to be considered accreditation.

I think what is at issue is that some may have claimed degrees that were never offered.

 

I agree 100% with Dr. Kirkland on this one. I would like to add that sometimes it is not posible to get an accredited degree and state approval provides a way out.

 

Again, not the BPPVE, but the CPPVE. And not even them, because it was the state legislature that created the Authorized category. I have no love of the BPPVE, but they don't get the blame for this case.

 

Really? What defines "not possible"? Please provide an example of a state-approved school offering a DL program not otherwise available from accredited schools, and does so with a comparable level of academic rigor.

I counter that this is false, and that there is no longer a reason--other than serving very specific niches--for a school to remain unaccredited.

 

I thought that it was a thread about an Irish boffin. You seem to want to turn it into an attack on the California post-secondary education authorities.

The authorized category had been abolished in 1989. The boffin acquired his doctorate in 1994. So he didn't even get his degree from a California school. He got it from a Hawaii school. If you want to be blaming states for whatever sins may or may not have occurred here, then blame Hawaii for being excessively lax at one point. (They have subsequently shut the school down.)

The BPPVE didn't even exist at the time. The BPPVE's predecessors abolished the authorized category and sent schools that were unwilling or unable to meet approval standards packing. What more should they have done?

You seem to be blaming the California authorities for allowing schools to operate in Hawaii. But California and Hawaii are separate states. Hawaii is a couple of thousand miles out in the Pacific. The California state government and California state laws have no jurisdiction in Hawaii.

I don't have any problem with state-approved law and psych schools qualifying their graduates for the exams.

That would be a good trick, since the BPPVE didn't even exist at the time.

Get what? What are you talking about? You can't blame California for schools operating in other states or overseas.

What's wrong with attending a California approved school? I agree that some of them are kind of flakey, which paradoxically is part of their charm. (It's easier to start them, so they represent a sort of grass-roots academia.) I agree that they should only be recommended with great care and that prospective students need to understand their very real limitations. But some of them do offer interesting programs. While care has to be taken with them, they might suit some students' needs in some situations. I can imagine enrolling in some of them myself.

This thread concerns a Hawaii school. The BPPVE's predecessors had already caused it to stop operating in California before the degree in question was ever granted. If it decided to set up shop elsewhere, that's not California's fault.

 

Sometimes it is just not possible to tranfer credits to an accredited school. Like in the case of a ABA accredited law school not accepting tranfers from students not in good standing from other law schools or the DETC schools not accepting credits that are older than 10 years old.

 

What does the above have to do with choosing an unaccredited, state-approved school over an accredited one? Neither scenario would require a student to make such a choice.

 

Bill

I thought it was about where he got his degree from.

Bill

You're right it was CPPVE and I stand corrected. But what's the difference to the DL consumer?

Bill

PWU is still Cal approved. So if the Irish boffin had this version of the PWU degree we wouldn't be talking about it? I doubt it.

Sorry to be a bit combative about this Bill but the CPPVE allowed this rubbish the room to operate so the Hawaii nonsense should come to no surprise. I just don't think the average DL consumer would pick up on the Hawaii-bad/Calif.- good PWU antics.

 

I agree with FWD that the BPPVE is AWOL when it comes to PWU in HI. That goes for FTU, too.

Seriously, I've been very critical about the BPPVE's tolerance of these schools that "off shore" their other operations, even though those operations are conducted in California. It helps me conclude that BPPVE approval ain't what it used to be with the CPPVE. (And the CPPVE had plenty of problems.)

 

Rich

Processing applications? You must mean collecting the fees. This has to be a joke. So after that it was buyer beware. Great system. So apparently they were legal mills.

As I said to Bill sorry to be a might combative about this but for whatever reason back then and a bit today the mill problem seems to lay at the door of the CPPVE/BPPVE. If they wouldn't approve /authorize this junk no one would fall for it.

Dan

 

The ScD degree from SCUPS

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Rich Douglas

... provide an example of a state-approved school offering a DL program not otherwise available from accredited schools, and does so with a comparable level of academic rigor....
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Rich,

If it’s at all relevant, I’ve been contemplating earning the above degree. SCUPS offers the Doctor of Science degree in Management of Engineering and Technology.

The only reason I am even considering this degree is that I have yet to find the same offered elsewhere -- accredited, in a DL format.

 

Flashback:

http://forums.degreeinfo.com/showthread.php?threadid=20022&highlight=pacific+western+university+aacsb

At the AACSB Web site:

http://www.aacsb.edu/General/InstLists.asp?lid=1

PWU is listed as an "Educational Member Institution"

You can even link to the PWU Web site from this page.

Guess if the "Gold Standard" Business Accreditation group says PWU is good enough to be a Educational Member Institution it must be so!

Just my opinion

 

So what would be the alternative? To start law school all over? Or not to get the degree? I think a unaccredited, state-approved degree is better than no degree. But that is only my humble opinion.

 

What "junk"? Who wouldn't fall for what?

You don't seem to be talking about Mr. McSweeney's degree program any longer. Whatever we happen to think of it, California never approved it and that's why it had to leave the state and move to Hawaii. At that point the thing was Hawaii's responsibility. California laws don't apply to non-Californian institutions. If you really want to castigate some state regulators for allowing his program to exist, then why aren't you aiming your jihad at HI?

But you seem to have a different agenda and seem to be trying to blame California for degree mills in general, which is simply ridiculous.

I'm sensing bitterness from you, Dan. Did you have an unpleasant experience with an unaccredited school in California that's left you resentful?

 

I guess that all the DL law schools could be examples. They may not be the academic equals of B&M ABA law schools, but if you have to have DL, then they are all you've got.

University of the West is another. They are busy putting in some DL classes as we speak (I saw an ad for them in a recent issue of Tricycle or Buddhadharma.) These are live video feeds to remote sites around the US and Canada. (I don't think that they pretend that you can do an entire degree by DL at this point.) This school is scheduled to have its final educational effectiveness assessment from WASC sometime this month, with a final decision on RA scheduled for February 6 of next year. I think that despite still being CA-approved and as yet unaccredited (they are a WASC-candidate, which puts them on the CHEA list), this school is building one of the more promising Buddhist studies doctoral programs in the United States. (They successfully lured the former chaiman of UC Berkeley's Ph.D. program to be their new President.)

http://www.uwest.edu/English/AcademicPrograms/ReligiousStudiesPhD.html

 

Bill

The Cal approved DL schools such as PWU,Newport, FTU and the like. This guy may have a Hawaii PWU degree or an Cal authorized degree who knows. But is he not being ridiculed because he has a PWU degree period regardless of the variety? But then if it's Hawaii's fault fine. My point is he earned a junk degree deemed credible by a state and really did nothing wrong.

Bill

Only for the ones in California which was quite a few in years past. Sorry if I'm not clear. Now granted it's better but they still exist.

Bill

First DL degree was unaccredited. Not unpleasant but a waste of time and hate to see others do the same.

Anyway have a good one and I enjoy your informative posts.

Dan

 

Bill

But with Concord and Taft DETC accredited this changes I would guess.

Are unaccredited Cal approved DL law school degrees illegal in Oregon,Michigan etc.?