IEE evaluation of Spanish Titulos Propios for Graduate Credit

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by smartdegree, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I believe that's exactly what the school calls it. They market quite a few MBA's of various foci and differentiate via the degree name. I think Maniac is just "tellin' it like it is." And that, to me, is the best strategy.
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I haven't seen that specific one myself, but if we're taking what was written purely as an example of accuracy and specificity, then I would agree it's always best to write things the way a school approves.
    Thorne likes this.
  3. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    The site doesn't mention "in general business" like that, but I think that's a nice way to disclose it regardless.

    I also agree that Maniac probably has the best way to list it so far though, a way to disclose everything without making your entire portfolio look uncanny.
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    @Thorne @LearningAddict

    My bad. You guys are right. It doesn't say what I wrote! Anywhere! Here's what the ENEB web-page DOES say though -- "Our MBA enables students to occupy any management position in a company in the of Marketing, Finance, Human Resources, Operations and General Management departments." So maybe it's a chance to tailor a resume to a particular job.

    I still think Maniac gave us the best option. (I note there's a typo in ENEB's statement. They seem to have left out the word "field" or "area." Or possibly there's an "of" which is not really needed. No biggie.)
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    Thorne likes this.
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    There are no research articles that talk about this. But if someone it is interested, just open a WES account and check all the schools that were discussed here that at one point were accepted but now are black listed. I tried Azteca, Empresarial, UCN (For doctoral programs) and others discussed here and WES now states that degrees from these schools are not longer evaluated in spite of their local recognition. The point is that there pattern seems to be quite clear, a school starts over selling degrees to the US and as WES starts getting a high number of graduates from a particular private school, they just stop evaluating to block the school from getting more business. As Isabel is also a private online school not so different from Azteca in terms of recognition, there is the risk that at some point WES would also block evaluations from this school so the advise is just to get it before it is in the black list.
    The US is a good market, it is very tempting for a small private online school like Isabel and EBEB to start conducting English degree operations with multiple choice exams that are self graded and grant diplomas to the masses, but this is not in the best interest to an academic market that still charges small fortunes to allow these schools to tkae their markets so WES acts as a gate keeper.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Perhaps so - but from all reports here, this is not what ENEB is doing. It's possibly what WES thinks they might do. From the folks here, it seem the ENEB course requires 10 or more papers, average 18 pages each, plus a final project. No multi-guess, everything marked by the school.

    Oh well - like the Post Office, I guess nothing can "stay Gatekeeper WES in his appointed rounds." :(
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2020
    Thorne likes this.
  7. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    That's the thing. From my conversations with ENEB, they're mainly focusing on Europe, but they opened up to the US because they are offering degrees in a language that we are very comfortable with, by and large.
    WES can do what they like, but I don't think the other agencies will start blacklisting UI1 degrees because they've already protected the market -- they've already said these are bachelor's degrees or just grad credits without endorsing the mighty "Master" title.

    Plus, the workload required by the projects is nothing like UCN's, which allowed a 251-page opinion piece about NLP to be a valid PhD Psychology dissertation. Of course, this doesn't stop me from scheming a path forward into Azteca+UCN because getting a DBA is on my bucket list :)
    Johann likes this.
  8. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    It seems that some of the arguments of these new operations is the validation aspect. Azteca, UNEM, UCN, Isabel basically just provide the diploma but the actual teaching is done by someone else. This is something that is not very welcome by Evaluation services that expect the granting institution to teach the program and not just print the diploma, one can argue that they supervise the work but it is hard to believe that a small school like Azteca or Isabel can supervise the many companies that teach their courses. Also, because they are private, many might think that they are just selling as many diplomas as they can to improve profits.
    Johann likes this.
  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Evaluation services are business like anything else. Yes, you are right, other services cannot afford to be picky otherwise they get not business. I evaluated with a NACES evaluation service that only required scanned copies of degrees while WES needed transcripts, letters, etc, etc.
    Thorne likes this.
  10. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    If I may, was this ECE or somewhere else?

    I'm trying to figure out where to send mine, since I'd like for these to be useful in as many contexts as possible (like applying to USGOV with a PGCert or Bachelor's in Business Admin in addition to my IT degree).
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This is a concern that I've mentioned quite a few times - I'm sure some DI members are tired of hearing it, but here goes anyway:

    I think UCN is, overall, a good-enough school and its degrees have certainly had useful recognition in U.S. (UNEM I'm not personally so fond of.) UCN has been highly active in numerous validation schemes, sometimes with schools - some European, others Latin-American, that I don't think are nearly as good as UCN itself. I've wailed a few times about the possibility of a U. Wales Consortium-type implosion that could come from the loss of confidence by evaluators, in degrees validated by UCN and quite possibly UCN's own degrees.

    I'd hate to see a good school be considered as a bad one, its reputation tarnished by backing the degrees of less-than-stellar schools, with too little oversight in the process. I know it's lucrative but caution cannot safely be abandoned.
    Last edited: Oct 24, 2020
  12. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The Germans would only recognize UNEM, UCN or Azteca degrees taught on campus and not through partnerships. Australian and Bristish Universities do the same thing, they grant degrees in Asia while local partners do the teaching but many of these are public institutions with strong names.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks. Good for the other Johann (766) to know, too. He IS in Germany. And yes - I'm glad that British Universities do what they do. We had a thread a while ago on a Welsh University's MBA program that was specially priced for students who enrolled via an African school. A couple of the credit-hunters here were disappointed they couldn't get on board at the fire-sale price. I'm perfectly OK with that. All the universities in the world don't revolve around North Americans. It's good that major universities do this for students in developing countries. I'm not aware of any Canadian schools doing this - but I think it would be a good thing.

    As to UCN - I might soon have to revise my opinion. There was post by Thorne in this thread about their accepting a 200+ page "opinion-piece" on NLP as a doctoral dissertation. We'll forget for a moment that I think NLP has been largely debunked - everybody's entitled to their own view. But if UCN has begun to accept dissertations that can accurately be called "opinion-pieces" i.e. lacking solid research - I may have to change my opinion of the school. Evaluators, who always have their ears perked for this sort of thing, would likely lead the trend.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
    Thorne likes this.
  14. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    I confess that I didn't read the whole thing through, so I might be wrongly titling it an "opinion piece." That said:

    The first 87 pages are a literature review of people's opinions of NLP, most of which seemed to discred it, then another 60 pages of methodology which was really an outline of the most basic kind of interview-based research that can be conducted.
    Skimming the research, it may actually be substantive? I don't know NLP well enough to say, but since the school offers another example NLP paper that is 882 pages and is reminiscent of dissertations I've read from middle-of-the-road schools in the USA, I'd assume this paper is horribly inadequate.

    Oh, and the author has inconsistent faux-APA formatting throughout, which is why I couldn't bother reading it.

    Individually, if someone wants to do real research, that's where the value would come in, but chances are that anyone serious about their field wouldn't want to get a doctorate from this school unless they're already established and just need the "Dr." title (backed by a legal school) for some reason.
    Johann likes this.
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think that would be the most frequent valid reason for choosing a legal, approved offshore school at low cost. "Home of the $6,000 Doctorate" is OK. Home of the $6,000 "Doctorate" is not, in my book. As long as the quotation marks haven't been moved - OK. If they have, it could mean curtains, for that revenue stream. Word gets around.
    Last edited: Oct 25, 2020
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    NLP is a recognized psychotherapy technique in some countries like the UK and Spain. Traditional Spanish schools offer degrees in NLP.

    When it comes to psychotherapy, one could argue that psychotherapy itself is bogus because it works for some and it does not work others. This is an issue of debate and we cannot just assume that because you read one article in a journal that claims that certain technique is bogus, it has really no value. Millions of people pay money for psychotherapy every year so there is value for it from the pragmatic point of view.

    I personally use NLP for personal purposes and it works for me, it is really just a tool to do something that you already do but in a more structured way.

    If we were to judge a school for its dissertations, we could also claim the University of California is Bogus because it allowed a dissertation in Parapsychology that it is also considered by many a bogus field in spite of some traditional universities offering these programs.

    UCN, UNEM, Azteca, etc lack respect mainly because they grant PhDs but they dont really have a research agenda. They are businesses that offer a degree that is in demand. They outsource all the teaching and research supervision.

    However, to be fair, the same can be said for a lot for profit US schools that also grant PhDs but lack research agendas and just contract people to supervise but they really dont have a research focus with research institutes, research projects, etc.

    We live in a world where money is king. People here in this forum come and want a PhD many times just to increase income, this is a fair objective but they know in their hearts that a PhD is just to dress a resume in a competitive market but the actual research skills might not be required for their careers.

    These programs come as a need for individuals to survive is a market with credential inflation. A psychotherapist with a PhD in NLP really makes no sense when not too long time ago most psychotherapists did not have even a degree.

    Last week I went to visit my dentist and noticed that in the office besides his was a hypnotherapist practice and the person claimed a PhD in Hypnotherapy with a certification in this field as well. Maybe he has a PhD in Psychology or a PhD from a metaphysical school, who knows but the therapist felt the need to get a PhD just to remain in business.

    Maybe the root of the problem is not really low cost and profile offering PhDs but a system that seems to keep asking for credentials for no other reason but to make you spend money to keep the economy running.
    SpoonyNix likes this.
  17. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    That's an interesting objection. Should a school necessarily have a research focus of its own? Or is it sufficient that a PhD program consists of students learning research and being supervised by those who have already demonstrated their success with that same process?
    Thorne likes this.
  18. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    This is up to the accreditation body in question. AACSB is going to require a very strong research focus while a regional accreditation body would not.

    My point is not to minimize the effort of people doing a PhD from the schools cited below. My point is that the academic community is going to judge your doctorate degree not so much for the local accreditation but the reputation of the school in questions when it comes to research.

    We are putting focus here in the professional value which could be high or low, but if a person choses the research path, a degree from a private school with little research presence is not going add too much value to your resume even if a NACES evaluation services gives its blessing.

    However, the above seems to be irrelevant as the vast majority here seems to want the PhD to dress a resume so its looks more competitive. So my point is that maybe you dont need it but you are falling into the trap of credential inflation.
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2020
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    How true. Now if we could only find the guy that built the first of those traps...
  20. Thorne

    Thorne Active Member

    We should pioneer a new institutional qualification! Get whatever accreditation lets us issue whatever degrees we want and offer two new Postdoc qualifications. Start with Specialist, then Advanced Specialist, then Expert. I'm sure the big private schools will latch on soon enough :D
    Johann likes this.

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