IEE evaluation of Spanish Titulos Propios for Graduate Credit

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by smartdegree, Oct 20, 2020.

  1. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This is what I read on the Azteca page. Looks like with a dual program you earn a Doctorate from UCN which can stand alone, no problems, plus an an interim M. Phil. or equivalent from Azteca during doctoral study. The M. Phil. equivalent is propio in itself, but fully validated by UCN.

    From the Azteca site:

    "Doctor programmes in Education, or Business Administration, or Psychology, or Environmental Science, or Health Science

    Available as inter-university programmes of Universidad Azteca and UCN Universidad Central de Nicaragua (fully autonomous and recognised PhD level doctorate)

    In this dual degree inter-university postgraduate programme the Mexican Universidad Azteca Maestría en Ciencias de la Educación is the intermediate degree earned halfway through the programme at MPhil level, and the UCN doctorate is the final official degree awarded by UCN with full recognition in Nicaragua, based on the thesis completed with UCN."

    Cacoleman1983, is your Azteca / UCN program one of those mentioned? Are you earning these two degrees in the process?
  2. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    LOL. Yeah, that is a little strange. Some people just don't know better.
    Thorne likes this.
  3. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    I think the most professional and ethical way would be:
    MBA; Isabel I University, European Business School of Barcelona

    ENEB is printed in the diploma, the average person might think of it as an extension of Isabel so this might raise not eyebrows and look fine.
    innen_oda and Thorne like this.
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    WES will not evaluate propio degrees from Azteca. For a Masters degree, a way to get an official Masters is to get a top up MBA from a UK school provided that they accept the ECTS credits from Spain but my guess is that they will be accepted as they are officially ECTS credits just not an official degree.
    For Doctorates is a bit more complex but an idea would be to get a NACES evaluation report and then earn a Post Doctoral certificate from Walden or similar school. Walden takes NACES reports for admission so you can earn a post Doc certificate from them to legitimize your Doctorate.

    A Post Doc is going to cost you still a lot of money but it would be way cheaper than the PhD from them. To the average person, your PhD would look fine as you earned a post doc credential.
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Am I the only one having a bit of difficulty decoding this post?

    (1) If you get a positive NACES report for the doctorate - (as should be the case with UCN - the awarding school) why would you need the post-doc at all. "Legitimizing" an already-legitimate degree seems superfluous - and costly in this case.

    (2) If you somehow get a LESS-than positive NACES evaluation of your doctorate, (less than likely with UCN), then how are you going to enter a post-doc cert. program? No "legit" US school SHOULD admit you unless the underlying doctorate is NACES-OK. Is Walden somehow different in this regard?

    (3) From your post, I gather an Azteca master propio won't be considered by WES. OK - but cacoleman83 says they will be considered by (1) Spantran or (2) ERES if they are validated by UCN.

    (4) In the same sentence as Azteca, (Mexican) you suddenly switch to an MBA solution using a Spanish (presumably ENEB / Isabel I) Master propio with a top-up from UK using the underlying ECTS credits. Okay. Might work, but certainly in another financial category. That British top-up won't cost anything like the same league as ENEB / Groupon! Totally different ballpark. If someone really thinks that's necessary - I suggest they re-evaluate their whole strategy.

    Camouflaging a deficient degree with another is a risky business. Camouflaging a valid one is useless -or worse.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
    innen_oda likes this.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Sorry time ran out. My last sentence above should read "Camouflaging a deficient degree with another credential is a risky business. Camouflaging a valid degree is useless - or worse."

    My take: Propping up a degree that doesn't work for you can be very costly -and uncertain. It's like having constant repairs on your rusted-out 1994 Ford Fiesta. Better to cut your losses and get something that runs.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  7. smartdegree

    smartdegree Active Member

    Spantran and IERF will NOT recognize the titulo propio. Don't waste your money evaluating it there. See page 43:

    • No credit

    • No recognition because these programs are not recognized by Ministry of Education of Spain and because do not grant admission to recognized second cycle programs • However, we recommend that U.S. institutions review content for possible transfer credit at their discretion if this program of study is acceptable
  8. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    No matter where you live it's a Master's degree. Third party opinions about its equivalence in other systems may be a convenience for certain employment or immigration use cases, but that's all they are: third party opinions.

    But if I earned one of these and put it on my CV, yes, I guess I'd probably list both relevant institutions.

    That seems reasonable.
    LearningAddict likes this.
  9. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Cacoleman83 ws referring to Azteca (Mexican) propio degrees validated by UCN - which has the street-cred to do so. He was not referring to generic Spanish propio degrees.

    Nobody has said IERF would recognize anything discussed here - but I'm guessing cacoleman83 has some "validated" reason to believe in what he said about Spantran and ERES recognizing specifically validated (by UCN) Azteca degrees.
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2020
  10. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    I should have been a bit more clear. No the propio degrees will not be evaluated as a completed degree, only credit hours. The UCN validation is the reason Spantran and ERES will give the foreign equivalency evaluation due to the UCN diploma alone.
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks. That makes it very clear.

    @smartdegree Sorry about my remarks "Nobody said IERF.... etc" above. I momentarily forgot that this thread is a "General call" re: all evaluators' treatment of ENEB / Isabel 1 Master propio programs. I'm not surprised that IERF doesn't recognize them. They have a reputation (so I've read) of being on the stricter side of the evaluation spectrum. Good to know about Spantran too.
  12. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    I'm working on the PhD through Azteca as Proprio that will be validated and also rewarded as an official PhD through UCN. I won't earn an intermediate Masters of Philosophy degree because my Masters of Education and Graduate Certificate put me at advanced standing so I am essentially enrolled as an "All But Dissertation" student.
  13. cacoleman1983

    cacoleman1983 Active Member

    That's an interesting way to pursue coursework after a PhD especially since many view a PhD by research without coursework inferior to the US PhD with coursework. I may consider this if I want to fill in some gaps in coursework not met in previous degrees. I'm getting the Azteca/UCN PhD more for personal development, not to compete with other PhDs.
  14. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    At most institutions, a post-doc is an underpaid faculty member. Are you saying that at Walden you pay them?
    Dustin likes this.
  15. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Post Docs are normally paid positions but these are actually academic programs after a PhD.

    Walden has a Post Doc certificate in Management, Psychology, Business

    CTU used to have a second doctorate as a post doctorate.

    I agree that a NACES report might legitimize the degree but as UCN is controversial, the regular employer might take the Post Doc from an American school as equivalent as a PhD for employment purposes.

    This is just an idea.

    As titulos propios start invading the US market with $149 degrees, you will see more difficulty in getting them recognized so my suggestion for those with these degrees is to get a NACES report now before it is too late.

    The same with cheap controversial PhD degrees from Azteca, UCN, etc. I would suggest getting a NACES report now. WES has now in the black list many of these operations so I am sure others will follow.
  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Citation needed, to put it mildly.
    Thorne likes this.
  17. Maniac Craniac

    Maniac Craniac Moderator Staff Member

    MBA - Master of Business Administration | General Business
    Isabel I University & European Business School of Barcelona

    Looks about right to me. Any thoughts?
    Dustin and Johann like this.
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Best I've seen.
  19. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    Not sure about the General Business part as I think that's implied given what an MBA is. Adding it may also communicate that a concentration should be otherwise expected.
  20. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I think wording is key in the matter for sure, and it's a point of contention even more when considering that the degree you're referring to has Isabel's seal on it and the signature of Isabel's Chancellor.

    Don't we have some idea of that based on the evaluation from ECE, a NACES service? It wasn't rejected, it worked out as an RA BA/BS (and for a reason I don't really agree with). Yes, I know it was for employment purposes but if a degree is no good in an evaluator's eyes, they're not going to evaluate that as equivalent no matter what.

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