Had it with UoP! (long)

I have been working on a BSBA at UoP. I have been attending on-site classes in Bakersfield for the last 22 months, and I am growing increasingly worried about the UoP's academic reputation. Some of the students barely get by, and I am worried that UoP's rep may suffer from what these people do in the real world. I wonder how many HR directors will not hire UoP graduates, because they have seen some of these people. Also, the tuition is ridiculously high!
I began my studies at Uop because of the convenience it offered. i.e, fast graduation, since I am able to work and still crank out 30 semester units a year. I know there is no way I can accomplish the same at Cal State Bakersfield, because they make it immpossible, they are simply not set-up to deal with adult learners time constaints. So, I could use some help finding an alternative.
I would like to complete my degree in no more than 15 months. I presently have 60 semester credits 30 LD and 30 UD. I am planning on using CLEP and DANTES to finish the remaining 30 LD units. I am searching for a school that I can finish the remaing UD work, that is not terribly expensive, but at the same time, I would like the school to have a better than average academic reputation. I prefer the lock-step type of program, but I am willing to consider a multi-class schedule.
I am planning to continue my education beyond the Bachelor level, as I plan to teach part time later in life, and this is another reason UoP scares me.. Any Ideas would be appreciated.

 

My heart goes out to you. I left for similar reasons that you cited.

People on this forum are always writing favorably about Excelsior College and, consequently, I would recommend it to you.

 

UoP should not scare you. As I have stated in other threads, I think UoP prepares its students well for gradute education. When I was doing my MBA, I found that other students from supposedly sound academic institiutions had trouble writing. I had no problems. UoP fixed that rather quickly.

Also, understand that alot of schools will have graduates who underperform in the work place, just as UoP has many who do very well. I don't think you will have a problem because of your degree. There are varying levels of quality among schools, and I maintain that although UoP is no Harvard, it is no slouch either.

As for the price, you got me there! There are better schools that cost way less. At some point or another however, you have to weigh time against money. That was the difficult decision I had to make. UoP has worked out just fine for me.

The following is a website of a college with a great reputation in the St. Louis metro area. It is the oldest college in Illinois and the former teaching home of one of Illinois' governors, Augustus French.

Notice the degrees listed by Peter C Will:

http://www.mckendree.edu/web_02_03/Academics/facultydir.htm

 

I am not sure of your point. One professor at one college who has one out of four degrees from UofP makes UofP a good choice?

Considering their reputation, complaints from students and teachers, and their high tuition I would never consider UofP for a Bachelor's degree. If nothing else the big three beats it hands down.

 

If you want above average...

academic reputation--and considering the costs ou already incur--how about Skidmore College-UWW? True--this would also mean travel to upstate New York, and that adds cost....But they are distance and testing friendly, they do offer buriness degrees, too, and they're better than any alternative for advising.

However, aren't there any private colleges in SoCal that are degree completer friendly? This option gets no discussion here on degreeinfo.com for some reason.

--Orson

 

The point was not to provide conclusive evidence as to the value of the degree, but rather to show that it is possible to have a career. The complaint was that UoP would cause bias. I said as much as the varying other institutions. I also said that there are better choices, and that time would definitely be a factor, as with other schools. I just like to set the record straight for those who will come out with their villification of UoP. It's not the best, it's not the worst, and depending on your goals, it may work for you.

 

When I think of UoPl, I think of every other profit-making school out there. Thus, I place UoP in the same category that I place, say, DeVry. And I am not impressed.

Having said that, everyone has a different impresson. To the business person, UoP may be a credible program. But I am no longer a business person. (When I was, however, I was also not impressed with such schools.)

This is pure perception, but for what it's worth . . . When someone tells me that he or she is doing a degree through UoP, what I perceive is someone who was snowballed by UoP's extensive marketing, and dumb enough not to realize that there must be (and are) similar programs that are older, more credible, and far more cost effective.

I have recently met people doing degrees ranbging from the MBA to MSN, and I have to admit that it does change my perception of them - and not for the better. Unscientific impression? Sure, but that's the way it is.

(Lest y'all think I'm simply busting UoP's balls, I should mention that I feel the same way about all proprietary, or profit-making, colleges and universities. Thus, yes, I would also think less of people doing their degrees through, say, Strayer, Walden, or Capella. Am I being snobbish? Probably, but what the hell, I already have a Ph.D. in hand - from a good ol' non-profit university.)

UoP may call itself a university, but as far as I'm concerned, it's no more than a business enterprise. They may tout that its faculty consists of experienced business professionals, but any academic knows that it really means they have copped out of hiring full-time faculty (to whom they would have to pay benefits) in favor of part-timers and adjuncts.

Am I, thus, saying that UoP and similar schools are a joke (one of my favorite terms, as everyone knows)? Yes. Which simply proves than even regionally accredited schools can be a joke, too.

 

UOP

I used to teach for UOP... my experiences are that many many students expected an "A" for their tuition. I often had students go absolutely bonkers if I legitimately gave them an "A-" for instance. Grade inflation is rampant... but there are a few good instructors there.

Now, my wife is considering an online MBA.... for some reason, she contacted UOP. NOW, she can't get them to leave her alone. How often do I have to say "told you so."

One thing that really bothered me there was the people they called "advisors" or "counselors" were nothing more than sales people. They earn money for each additional student. How many times did I find out a new student of mine was told "Oh, you don't have to do the first assignment" and then I'd have to complain to the administration.

I took my stock options and left after a few years. The place flat out made me uncomfortable. I had high student evaluations, which I expected, but there is just something about the place....

Hey, if you don't mind the incredibly high tuition, you can pump out a degree there quickly.

 

Re: UOP

cogent,

I basically agree with what you are saying. I taught for UoP Online for a few years. The last course I taught for UoP was in July, 2001. I left for what I would term as corporate rigidity -- a greater interest in enforcing policy than working with students.

In addition, I found it unreasonabe to push students to complete their final masters project in 6 weeks from proposal to final product and expect a quality outcome. There were some students that did well but all expected to get a high grade.

John

 

Personally, no, as I really don't care about grammar and spelling on a web message board. However, I do remember that alot was the pet peeve of one of my HS English teachers. It drove him completely insane.


Bruce

 

I'm not impressed either. But nor am I appalled. UoPx seems to me to offer a adaquate journeyman quality education with superior flexibility at an inflated price.

BTW, I kinda sympathasize with DeVry. The reason I do, ironically, is because so many snobbish and anal Degreeinfo types don't like it. I see it as being a decent school that is crapped on repeatedly because it grew out of a downscale trade school. It just doesn't have the refined aura of an upscale liberal arts college.

Bottom line with DeVry is social class. But I do agree that it might be widely discriminated against for that reason, so I probably wouldn't choose it. I still say the best thing DeVry could do would be to change their name and reposition themselves upmarket from the sort of school that that once advertised TV repair courses on matchbook covers.

If earning an MSN allows a nurse to qualify for a higher position, then the degree did its job. The nurse's employers recognized it even if Degreeinfo doesn't. Which one is more important to that nurse?

One that has hippy-dippy 60's roots and which still seems to be heavily politicized and "alternative". The point being that academic snobbery isn't only practiced by you, nor are the non-profits immune.

And that's the bottom line with a lot of the Degreeinfo criticism of UoPx, I think. Ultimately it's a labor issue.

In its AED form, this discussion group was once student oriented. But since the move to a private forum (!), it has transmogrified. The focus is subtly moving towards Degreeinfo being a discussion group for past, current and intending college faculty who possess DL degrees.

If UoPx stopped treating its teaching staff like company employees, gave them lifetime tenure and let them do pretty much whatever they wanted, I predict that much of the professorial sniping at UoPx's academics would stop immediately.

In the same way, I think that if university faculty were reassured that the advent of DL didn't threaten their working conditions, many of the David Noble-style professional doubts about DL's academic quality would magically evaporate.

Kinda like CLEP-ping your way to an instant BA, I guess. Or for the true purists among us, earning any kind of DL degree.

 

The reality is the UoPx responded to needs that other schools were not meeting. Traditional colleges have been told for years that they needed to offer their classess in more convenient ways to attract non-traditional students (after all not every one can attend college straight through to doctorate, some people have to live life in a different way). UoPx offers a degree which is RA. It meets the criteria for admission to other schools, and regardless of the perceptions of members of this discussion board, their graduates are admitted to other graduate programs and employers accept the credential for advancment. They hold a meaningful place in the market for adult learners. If tradtional universities and colleges had not been such academic snobs, UoPx and DeVry and many other non-tradtional RA schools may never have become so important to many adult learners.

It is interesting to hear the compaints about writing skills. I have taught graduate school at three different state universities, and have had students from a wide variety of undegraduate programs, inlcuding first tier schools. A common feature among more than half of the students was the inability to communicate in writing. Many undergraduate programs, including state universities, have fallen down in the level of writing skills that are tolerated among graduates.

 

Mine too (ooops--I mean mines, too)...just kidding!

 

How does UoP compare to Capella? Capella's programs seem to be well thought out and responsive to what the market needs. It seems to be a well managed program. I've met some people who graduated with a UoP degree and teach English in Asia because they couldn't find anything with a UoP degree. (Both graduate degrees as well as undergrad.)

 

obecve's points are well taken. However, UoP is a latecomer to the nontraditional market, not to mention to the educational market on the whole. There are many RA schools that have done it longer and better; what UoP does more strongly than any other school is market itself.

Thus, the result is a consumer constituency that responds. "Hey, I didn't know you could do that!" And, like most naive consumers today, they buy the first product that is presented to them without shopping around for a better version of that product, or even a better deal on that product. They end up with a mediocre institution charging exhorbitant tuition when, in fact, they could have had it cheaper, better, and with a better reputation tha UoP. From an institution that is putting its money where its mouth is - into academic services instead of into more marketing. They may be better at closing the sale, but they come off as quite inferior (compared with older, more credibly perceived programs) at servicing the client once the sale is made.

By the way, I agree with the comments on writing skills. Having also taught at the graduate level for several years, I find the writing skills of most graduate-level students atrocious. Which simply means that there are many undergraduate programs that are doing what high schools have also failed to do. I got to the point at which I simply stopped shaving points for poor grammar, spelling, and punctuation - and still have mixed feelings about doing so.

 

My response to poor writing skills was to require more writing. I often required 3 short article reviews prior to allowing development of the term paper. This allowed for some writing development while still teaching the course.

I agree that there may be better, less expensive schools and that marketing has an impact. However, UoPx still has a place. My own experience (supporting current employees and having hired UoPx graduates) is that their academics are often similar to the other local small state schools and distance schools, no better, no worse.

This is the same argument made over the difference between the Ed.D. and Ph.D. or the argument between your favorite state university and your favorite Ivy league school. It can always be better some where else. Sometimes schedules, life, and resources contribute to the choices. The most important thing is get what you need from an RA school if you can.nDL happens to be a cool way to go.

 

On Writing

For my evening classes the college I teach for has an Online Writing Lab. I have noticed that students that have used the lab are writing much better. I therefore offer an extra credit to students who use the lab as an incentive. About half of the class takes me up on it and I have been getting much better papers this past year.

John

 

FOCUS

Hey,
The original post was meant to solicit advice, "I could use some help finding an alternative", and I could still use advice.
Do any of you have some advise for me?