Greenwich University-Australian Approval

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by Bruce, Jan 31, 2001.

  1. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    When you say Australian qualifications, do you mean they can't offer programs in Australia, i.e., only offer degrees to non-Australians?

    What I mean is that they are not permitted to offer qualifications under the Australian Qualificatons Framework (AQF). I can see no law prohibiting them to still offer their unaccredited US based qualifications, but it is now very, very messy if this were to occur.

    Also, what do you think Senator Carr's chances are in "getting" Greenwich?

    Based on what has transpired and Carr's media exposure, I say, at the momment, 'highly likely'



    Virtual Universities of Australasia & the World ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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  2. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    I certainly don't know the gentleman, but from his past behavior I get the impression that Mr. Walsh has a bit of a 'stop-me-if-you-can' sort of personality.

    So what would prevent Greenwich from continuing on exactly as they are doing now? Running their website, enrolling students and granting degrees. And advertising their Norfolk Island Act as being the equivalent of accreditation. Hell, they don't *need* no stinkin' AQF!

    This recent rejection may or may not be enough to keep them from getting GAAP status with the UNESCO Handbook (my respect for that publication is falling), but is it enough to shut down their current activities on Australian territory?

    Bottom line: What exactly does this recent Australian rejection mean in practice?
  3. George Brown

    George Brown Active Member

    Bottom line: What exactly does this recent Australian rejection mean in practice?


    Your quite correct Bill, from what I can gather, nothing can stop Greenwich from operating as a Norfolk Island university and be listed in the UNESCO publication. However, as my other post states, Greenwich is not recognised as an Australian university *and* is not permitted to confer Australian recognised qualifications.

    Bottom line: Greenwich has been invited to reapply to be listed on the AQF register. It must go through a full instituion audit for this to occur.

    It is a Norfolk Island university - nothing more, nothing less. Education is a joint responsibllity of the Island and the Commonwealth of Australia. The Commonwealth looks like it wants to backtrack on its decision and seek to have the Act rescined (maybe, have not seen anything more solid yet).

    Either way, from what has transpired, Greenwich has a big battle looming. From my study of the whole affair, I reckon the Commonwealth has a lot to answer for as they have really given Greenwich the runaround.
  4. Mark A. Sykes

    Mark A. Sykes Member

    Greenwich is an interesting case. For whatever reason, not many DL schools offer graduate degrees in math or physics, so I looked over their M.S. program in mathematics with interest. They look quite reasonable and in line with what one sees at other institutions (including a 50-page thesis requirement), until I read the requirements for the class MTH 793, Special Projects in Mathematics:

    "Under the direction of the course instructor, projects result in the creation of an original work by the student which might take the form of a video- or audio-tape, a CD, creative work of art or a performance, a book or other printed material, or a scholarly paper of publishable quality."

    I will be the first to point out that every sort of activity or phenomenon can be described or modelled mathematically, but I would feel very uncomfortable suggesting I submit a dramatic reading of Legendre's Elements of Geometry in partial satisfaction of an M.S. degree.

    The link to their school of physical sciences is not active.

    Although they don't quite get the cigar, I'd rather praise than damn them. Greenwich could eventually evolve into a leading DL institution once they've given careful remediation to their legitimacy and academic orthodoxy.

    Mark A. Sykes
  5. BillDayson

    BillDayson New Member

    My guess is that is generic language that they use for all their special projects courses. Probably every major has a '793' course that is described in the same language.

    The biggest problem I have with Greenwich has been their lack of outside quality assurance scrutiny. Their lack of "accreditation" in other words. Without somebody credible outside Greenwich looking in and telling us what they see, we have no way to know what their academic standards really are. All we have are cool sounding catalog entries.

    That situation was made worse by Mr. Walsh's apparent reluctance to seek regional accreditation with North Central (which has accredited schools like his), coupled with his quickness in exploiting what can only be called a loophole in Australian educational law, giving his school an act of parliament without having to undergo any academic scrutiny at all. That seeming evasion of accreditation oversight created the impression in my mind that Greenwich might have something to hide.

    Now the whole thing has exploded in Australian politics and in their press. The AQF mechanism came in and examined Greenwich anyway, and apparently found them seriously lacking.

    That about sums it up for me. An unrecognized university that apparently is academically substandard and which has behaved evasively in the past.
  6. Yan

    Yan New Member

    Greenwich University offers its MBA in China and advertises that "the degree is offered by Greenwich University from Australia, .... its degrees are recognized in Australia, UK and Commonwealth countries, Europe and USA. ..... Greenwich is the only one non-traditional private university in the world that has governmental approval...." ( The advertisement is in Chinese.

    The classes will be started in early January 2002. The course fee is:
    MBA (in Chinese):
    $49,860 (equivalent to US$6,300)
    MBA (in English):
    $52,860 (equivalent to US$6,700)

    As to its accredition, it is stated in the University's website "...The Education (Greenwich University) regulatins 1998 were passed by the Norfolk Island Government with the approval of the Commonwealth of Australia..."
  7. John Bear

    John Bear Senior Member

    I envision Greenwich owner John Walsh of Brannagh sitting there chuckling over his little 'coup' -- hoping that the outrageous statements in his Chinese site will not be noticed by the outside world. Thank you for shining a light on it, Yan. Now I hope George Brown, who 'has the ear' of both reporters and government authorities in Australia, will pass the information along.
  8. Peter French

    Peter French member

    Except that the statement made:

    "...The Education (Greenwich University) regulations 1998 were passed by the Norfolk Island Government with the approval of the Commonwealth of Australia..."

    is dead accurate, even if by default.

    Yes ... John Walsh is reportedly laughing his ass off, as a variety of people work out who to blame for the fiasco, and probably secretly pray for a South Pacific uprising that will remove the problem/location.


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