G.I. Bill and Distance Ed

I know many people will know the asnwer to this....my wife will use up her TA (USAF) later this year when she gets her degree. If she wanted to use her GI Bill with an approved dantes school, how does that work....I know that for "regular students", you must be a full time student (so many # of hours) and you get X amount per month. What if enroll in 6 hours of distance and do it 2 months? or 3 months? It would seem confusing? Also, in situations like these, does it make sense to take your time and use the allocated time so as to maximize payment. Thanks in advance.

 

JNate,

The program has to be approved by the Veteran's Administration. Many DL programs are. Your wife should be able to use Tuition Assistance and GI Bill Benefits together. She can take less than a full-time course load. The following chart shows how much your wife should expect to get:

Monthly Rate Training Time
$528.00 Full
$396.00 Three-Quarter
$264.00 One-Half

Check out the following web site for more Montgomery GI Bill information:
http://www.gibill.va.gov/education/c30pam.htm

Or, for more personal service, your wife can speak with an education counselor at the base education center.

Tracy Gies <><
An Army of One

 

Unless it has changed since I retired 8 years ago, and I doubt that it has, the ruling has been that while on active duty, your GI Bill will be reduced on a dollar for dollar basis. Using the current rate of 580.00 per month, your wife's entitlement will be deducted one month for each $580.00 she uses. The part-time/full-time rule doesn't apply.

The best way to streatch the entitlement is to be 100% sure that the courses one takes meet their final goal.

T. Nichols (who managed to use all 45 months of his GI Bill). (it was 45 months of entitlement when I enlisted and not the current 36)

 

I was thinking about this today and I am convinced that the best way to s-t-r-e-t-c-h the GI Bill, is to pay on a course by course basis.

T. Nichols

 

The problem I have found with the GI Bill is that it is not very flexible. Hopefully, if S131 passes the Senate the rates will be better and alleviate the problem. The issue for me is that even though in the sense of the total value of your GI Bill you may have enough to pay for a degree (eg. doctorate), when it comes to the way they pay it out you will go into some debt. For example, if a 4 credit class at Touro is 2000.00 dollars and two classes are full time, and there are 12 weeks in a semester the following happens.

cost: 4,000
GI Bill: 630 (approx) X 3 months=1890.00
Debt: 2,110.00

Total amount of GI BIll 630 X 36 months=22,680

Total Amount of 40 credit hour Touro Doctorate: 20,000

You actually have enough to pay for the degree program but the way it is utilized means it does not cover the cost of the classes.

I realize that this may sound like whinning to someone who has had to take out loans for the whole thing but it is my pet peeve.

North

 

North:

Your point is well taken. The courses I'm taking with Nova for my Ed.S. degree are only six weeks long. Consequently, only one course per 6-week term is required for full time benefits. I initially tried to do two courses each term but found it too much to handle so I dropped down to one. While this extended the time to complete the degree by one year, I will manage to get all but one of my courses paid by the GI Bill - saving me $4,000 in the process. If I had known I could have requested not to receive money for the semester brakes I would have broken even.

Ted

 

What is the tuition for NSU doctoral level courses?

North

 

North:

I looked into a couple of Nova's doctorate programs and they're running between $25-30,000. That is why I went the Ed.S. route. At the time I started, my school district gave the same raise for an Ed.S. and an Ed.D.. I couldn't justify paying 15-20,000 more for the same pay knowing that the GI Bill would make it practically free for me.

I just received word from the district personnel office that they would accept a degree from a foreign country for the purposes of a step increase. So I'm still searching for doctorate possibilities. I know a lot of people will probably be shaking their heads right now but as I currently view things, CEU doesn't look like that bad of an option. Especially if I could apply some of my Master's and Ed.S. courses within their program.


Ted

 

I would say that they are probably not a bad option either. I was somewhat turned off by the Levicoff law suit and subsequent apparent legal bungling with registration of the school in appropriate jurisdictions. I am assuming this is the fault of MIGS and not CEU. Not to mention the apparent mean spirited refusal to address Dr. Levicoff as Dr. Levicoff by the attorney who it appears Levicoff bested on the registration issue.

Having said that, CEU is GAAP. That seems to be the consensus and that fact endorsed by Dr. Bear. It is also affordable. For your purpose, which is not to get a faculty position at Michigan State, it would appear to fit the criteria in terms of it being accredited and very affordable. I think it simply needs to grow some more in terms of the MIGS end of it.

Good luck.

North

 

The "Mr. Levicoff" businees was petty and dumb, but it was done by one guy, not the entire school.

MIGS's only problem with licensing was that they needed to get Florida's approval to operate an office in that state. They don't have to go through licensing because they're not operating a school there. Still, they certainly should have done this right up front and not have had to wait to have it thrown (rightly so) in their face.

While the CEU certainly meets GAAP, they've never offered the doctorate, and they've only had one master's program in their curriculum (in Administration). It's hard to tell just how useful a degree from there is. Also, even I'm not clear about the relationship between CEU and MIGS. It appears there is one. It also appears MIGS operates under the CEU with the full approval of the Mexican and state government. Also, MIGS is included in the CEU's listing in the International Handbook of Universities.

What I'm troubled about is the lack of involvement by the CEU in MIGS, other than approving what happens. I tried to get approval to have one of their faculty members (who is also listed on MIGS's faculty list) included on my Academic Supervisory Committee. This particular person is even said to be on MIGS's Board of Directors. Also, he has a Ph.D. from a university in the U.S., and is quite well-regarded in academic circles on both sides of the border. I was rebuffed by the person at MIGS who makes these decisions, making me wonder about the whole MIGS/CEU relationship. When I inquired further, I was told there were still some things to iron out between the two organizations, and their faculty wouldn't be available to be on my committee at present.

I'm mystified and disappointed at this response. As it stands, two of my committee members are set: Drs. John Bear and Armando Arias. The third? Who knows. We tried to add Dr. Marina Bear, but were rebuffed in that effort, too. The MIGS answer was they didn't want a conflict of interest with two people serving on the committee married to each other, and one serving as Chair. This, of course, is nonsense, but I didn't fight it. (Marina Bear is an ethicist and well-versed in my study topic. The synergistic opportunity for four people who know each other, respect each other, and are very interested in the topic at hand was too good to pass up. Yet, we must.)

I hope to conduct my research this spring and summer, and wrap up the program this fall. I'll keep you informed, and let you know who's signatures are on the diploma!

Rich Douglas

 

Of course, that's "whose," not "who's." And what I meant was I wonder if the CEU will be on the documents.

Rich

 

Rich, thanks for posting this information. It gives consumers a little more to consider. I wish you nothing but success in your pursuit of the Ph.D. I am hoping this situation irons itself out.

How long before you complete the dissertation?

North

 

DETC meets GAAP but I'm sure I wouldn't get anywhere with a DETC doctorate. That is why I had them put that they accept foreign degrees in writing.

I must say that I have had some concerns about MIGS rocky start but I attribute that to inexperience in the type of adventure that they have embarked upon. One interesting aspect is that they could easily have run this same operation from Mexico and avoided a lot of the questions they are now receiving. However, given how many Americans feel about other countries, it isn't surprising that they would want to set up a presence in the United States from which to work. It may seem awkward to many that a school might have a branch somewhere else but it is not that uncommon. As you know, a branch campus on a military base has a lot of local autonomy. Even though I took some University of Maryland courses in Bermuda, when I transferred to Japan, they had to transfer my records to the University of Maryland's branch in Okinawa although I was taking classes in Yokosuka. Now when I order transcripts, I have to request them from Okinawa via APO San Francisco. Hopefully, MIGS will soon get their sea-legs and enter into some smoother waters.

T. Nichols

 

Yes these are somewhat tricky waters. State regulatory agencies/bodies often set rules as to what accredited means. I am aware that this does not mean that all recognized accredited degrees are accepted. For instance, LPC boards may specify RA. Another agency may accept RA,and AABC/ATS.

The other issue with GAAP is that it is a loose guideline. As has been discussed before, Berne University International Graduate School meets GAAP (accredited by government authority & listed in UNESCO's Handbook). Often with foreign degrees, the regulatory agency will require that they be evaluated by a recognized foreign credential evaluator. This is where Berne arrives at a problem for reasons discussed at length here and on aed. I do not know that anyone has graduated from CEU and had an evaluation done. However, CEU overcomes some of Berne's road blocks in that the government that recognized and authorized the program has experience *accrediting* (excuse the term) public universities within its jurisdiction.

Incidentally, have you considered Northcentral University. If they receive candidacy, they may be worth a gamble. The price is comparable to CEU and it is a US school. Some of the Ph.D. in Psychology (organizationl) may be applicable to what you do as may be the Ph.D. in business (believe you can specialize in Public Administration).

Best wishes. As you are a teacher, you have a tough job! God Bless you! By the way there is an excellent article in the American Educator on parenting and schools (parents threatening to sue schools rather than holding their child accountable, etc).

North

 

So then NCU is authorized for VA/GI Bill? I thought that only schools with RA, or whatever is on the government list, falls within that category.

Bing

 

No one knows! Seriously, I've drafted chapters one and two, and am designing the survey instrument. As I noted in my post, assembling a credible committee has been challenging, and it continues.

Rich Douglas

 

North:

Actually, I am strongly considering Northcentral and have been watching their progress toward certification quite intently. If they were offering a Ph.D. in education, I probably wouldn't hesitate. However, a Ph.D. in psychology is a viable alternative since my MS was in Counseling and Psychology, I have certification in Guidance and Counseling, and teach the emotionally handicapped.

Bing:
I"m not sure if Northcentral is accepting the GI Bill at this time. I seem to recall reading something that gave me that impression but I couldn't find anything to veify it. On a related note, their new application requests that a DD214 be attached but that could be just for applying credit for military courses.

T. Nichols

 

I don't think they are yet. However, I have e-mailed them because their web site mentions the Army National Guard Institute (posted information under a separate thread a couple of days ago). It appears that NCU has a Touro type deal which offers a scholarship to cover the amount the National Guard does not (essentially a free degree & I believe they cover Ph.D.'s). I found this strange as the Guard site says only schools that are RA are in the program. However, maybe the Guard is banking on the candidacy.

If I remember correctly the VA approved TGSA while in candidacy and even though it did not have Federal Student Loan approval.

I will keep you posted when I hear anything.

North

 

I contacted NCU and no they are not yet approved for VA. I did not ask how the ARNG thing happened but probably because it is T.A. from the National Guard and not VA.

North