FYI e-degrees in S. Africa

Why? Most of the people that I know go to the US because they can convert later on the graduate degree in to a green card. That is why is not very attractive to do a degree down there in DL format, the idea is to go for the American dream.

 

RF - I can't say you're wrong because I don't know this to be the case, but I'm wondering about your reasoning. After all, those other countries mentioned (Britain, Australia, Canada) are remarkably similar to the USA in that they are all English speaking, all have capitalist economies, all have democratic political systems, all are industrially/technologically sophisticated, etc. All are suitable locations for pursuit of the "______ Dream." I'm guessing that there is another factor(s), possibly different immigration laws, ease of obtaining education visas, etc. because I'm guessing that, on average, our schools are no better than those in the other countries mentioned.
Jack

 

It would be easier to convert the green card into a green diploma from GREENwich University, the largest of Norfolk Island's two academic institutions.

Greenwich University: 167,541 students
Holos University: 21 students

Russell

 

You are guessing right! there is a big brain drain from Canada to the US in the fields of information technology, medicine and other professional fields. The main reason is higher salaries and bigger opportunities. A lot of Canadians study in the US regardless of the enormous difference in the tuition fees mainly because this facilitates immigration and job contacts in the other side of the border. Education is the US is much more expensive than Canada but this can be considered as an investment due to the differences in salaries. In academia the situation is worst, most of the computer science and engineering professors go to the US for bigger salaries.

 

Hi, Karlos. Happy Fourth of July to you. (For those outside the US, today is a big holiday here, celebrating national independence and all the national ideals and stuff.)

My opinion on your question is that it probably isn't the best idea for anyone to do all of his or her higher education by distance education. It is more a matter of educational medium than nationality. Probably at least some of the undergraduate years should be spent on campus. DL seems more appropriate for continuing education.

I guess that would mean studying in one's home country in most cases.

Educationally, I don't know if it is always necessary to have some domestic higher education. Probably a lot depends on your field. Mathematics or astrophysics are the same the world around, so it doesn't matter much where you study them. But law is rather country-specific in many ways. Education probably is too. The social sciences might be as well, for things like sociology or social work. Criminal justice obviously is. Business is as well, if you think of banking or taxation laws, or accounting practices. There may be licensing issues in studying some fields outside the jurisdiction you intend to seek a license. Universities in a particular nation are often the best place to study that nation's history or culture.

 

It is an interesting phenomenon. It does seem that the United States is generally the country of choice for people from 2nd/3rd world countries.
However the same cannot be said for individuals from other 1st world countries. I recall a fellow from france we tried to hire to the US. The position and salary were fine but we couldn't come to terms on "quality of life" issues... i.e. france had more to offer than the US.
So why don't student go to these other countries instead? Marketing perhaps???

 

I have seen some "United States in the pot-o-gold at the end of the rainbow" mentality in some individuals from 2nd world nations. Much of this is based on misperceptions regarding the United States, Britain, Canada, etc.

 

Actually, the "great brain drain" is generally a myth promulgated by right-wing types trying to lower Canadian taxes. If you eliminated high-tech and medicine the immigration rate is not at all higher than long-term averages. High-tech "was" driven by great demand in the US... medicine by a lack of demand in Canada. Already many Canadian techies are moving home as the silicon dream has fizzled, I am not sure about medicine. Also, the vast majority of Canadians who do immigrate are not "high-value" types but are solid middle-class professionals.
Studying in the US actually offers no immigration advantages, although it does obviously increase job contacts.
Students line-up to get into the "good" US schools because of the great opportunities they open up. However, the Canadian ed system is generally seem as superior and Canadians are definetly not lining up to get into Podunk State U.

 

Superior according to whom? Care to back up that rather bold statement with some facts?
BTW, US students definitely aren't lining up to get into Frozen Wasteland U.

Bruce

 

One example cause I am busy. I was watching an American author / professor discuss the decline of popular culture. The topic of academic standards came up. Evidently he had taught at both American and Canadian schools, primarily at the undergrad level. His perception was that Canadian students were not better than US students but that standards in Canada were generally higher, in keeping with the British academic tradition. This is also consistent with the experiences others have shared on this board and aed from time to time.

 

I have studied both at the university level in Canada (3 degrees) and the U.S. (5 degrees) (please just trust me in terms of the numbers of degrees). How I would characterize the differences (and this is my experience only) would be that because Canada has fewer "university" institutions (because of their population), their control of the entrance standards are stricter. Thus, the average entering student in a Canadian university would probably be on the level of an average high second or first tier school in the U.S.

This allows for the entrance groups to be at a more "consistent" level verses the U.S. with its broad and varying standards depends on institution. These Canadian students are typically expected to read and write more on a similar course per course basis to the average U.S. institution.

The above being said, there would be very little difference when you compare the general Canadian universities to the average high second or first tier American institution. The difference mainly lies when you compare the student level of Canadian to American institution levels below the tiers I mentioned. I am only speaking very very broadly--mainly in the general social sciences.

I think in most of the applied sciences (i.e., Engineering, etc.), hard sciences, medicine, and law, the U.S. does a much better job integrating academics, practice, and orginality within their academic/professional culture.

I think there are strengths and weaknesses in both. A fairer comparison would probably be based on similar levels of institutions and academic fields.

EsqPhD

 

It is fairly well accepted withing academia that the average Canadian College or University is superior to the average US College or University. However, the elite US Colleges and Universities are also acknowledged as being superior to the elite Canadian Colleges and Universities.

Hworth

 

Sometimes its hard to cut through Lewchuk's personal anti-Americanism to get to the kernel of what he's saying, but he may have a point here.

The United States has 1500+ colleges and universities. Few people are familiar with all of them. Certainly few Canadians are.

Well, people have a natural tendency to dismiss things they are unfamiliar with. The word "Podunk" can be translated from Canadian into English to mean "Someplace I never heard of, so what good could it be?"

An American might interpret "Podunk" to mean Lethbridge, Laurentian, Brock, Athabasca, Bishop's, Chicoutimi, Brandon and a host of other smaller Canadian schools in relatively obscure spots. Of course, when we do that it's "ignorance" and "chauvinism". But we are held to a higher standard, eh?

So all Lewchuck is really saying is that Canadians are not likely to apply to schools they have never heard of. Which I'm sure is true. The added implication that all of those schools are also inferior is simply gratuitous.

 

I read where some 80% of Canadians live within 50 miles of the U.S. There is very little to distinguish between the two countries, yet this thread persists in trying to establish the superiority of one country's university system over the other? Please.

I like the notion that Canadian schools are better than some U.S. schools, and that some U.S. schools are better than Canadian schools. But this really is a silly debate. If the U.S. system has allowed for more mediocrity, it has also allowed for much more innovation. And innovation in higher education is what this board is all about.

Rich Douglas, who would live in Canada if they traded locations with Mexico. (Brrrr!)

 

All I've heard is "generally seem", "fairly well accepted", and one anecdote from a professor who has taught in both systems. I would hardly use this "evidence" to make a statement of fact.

Bruce

 

Well, when I get my little global graduate multi lingual school going in Indonesia, you'll have a GAAP alternative for about $10USD on the current exchange rate. We'll also be needing appropriate faculty soon for business and education, so I'll see where the offers come from.

Peter French
[email protected]

 

I've never heard that, except on this group. Of course I don't frequent Canadian academia.

My impression from here in the United States is that the Canadian median is very similar to the American median. But Canadian schools may be less likely to vary widely from that level, in any direction. American higher education is much more diverse, in kinds of institution, in their missions, and perhaps in quality as well. Canadians are more apt to try to fit all higher education functions into a single institution, while American schools are more often specialists.

Most Canadian universities are state associated and offer doctorates. There are some places like Brandon, Lakehead, Trent or Brock that don't emphasize doctorates and resemble what USNews calls "regional" universities, but they are comparatively less common. There are few Canadian schools comparable to the many hundreds of small liberal arts colleges one finds in America.

Lewchuk is of the opinion that small private schools should be dismissed as inferior, but many Americans see these schools as offering superior teaching, particularly at the undergraduate level.

I think that it is a fundamental mistake to look at the American higher education system and judge its quality by how far it deviates from the more generic Canadian university model. American higher education is simply too diverse to adaquately treat that way. We have undergraduate colleges, stand-alone graduate schools, DL-specialist schools, elite research programs, urban universities promoting educational opportunities for underserved populations, law schools, engineering schools, schools emphasizing part-time adult education in a host of vocational or professional subjects and more.

And I probably should point out that the purpose of this group is distance education. It seems to me to be a bit self-defeating to adopt a philosophy that automatically rejects schools that try to specialize in DL, and to insist instead that the DL programs remain hidden behind the generic Canadian-style university front.

 

Good point.

Ike

 

Dear Rich,

I agree in what you are saying, but I think that you are overstating the issue. The Canadians themselves constantly compare and distinguish French Canada to English Canada, and I am not talking about academics only. If they do this with themselves, it might not hurt to compare the whole Canada with other countries. Having said that, yes, some US schools are better than some Canadian schools, and some Canadian schools are better than some US schools. At the ivy league level, though, I tend to agree with Hworth.

My best regards,


Karlos Alberto Lacaye, who is going to visit a friend in Canada this summer.