Freedom University

If Dr. Ben Carson can call slaves immigrants, then we can call immigrants, immigrants.

 

Where do we draw the line? Bruce is 100% correct. You keep moving the goal, so then tell me how many should we let in and what the laws should be?

Look at it like this...If your dad doesn't pay the house note do they kids get to stay in the home? Its not there fault is it? At some place a line has to be drawn. We can't even take care of our own citizens, why do we have to take care of another countries?

Poverty | State of Working America

 

If if it's morally and legally defensible for foreigners who want to enter the United States to treat US immigration law as if it was nothing more than an annoying speed-bump on the road to satisfying their desires, then why shouldn't all of us treat all laws the same way?

Why are environmental, tax, labor, civil rights and criminal laws supposedly applicable to everyone, including (especially) individuals who desire to violate them? Why shouldn't desire to violate the law invalidate the law?

 

I am a legal immigrant on my path towards the Green card (aka Permanent Residence). I can tell you the path to legal immigration in it's current state takes 10-70 years with 20+ being average. This was made possible thanks to DHS working with businesses and bureaucrats over the years to ensure the immigrant stays in slavery at the employer's mercy, or forced to go back. And I am not talking about the construction workers - but doctors and engineers.
Yes - the US Immigration law is not just a speed bump - it's a PITA. I do not encourage any kind of law-breaking, but my point is such a simple law has been made so unnecessarily complex, it actually makes one to think if it's worth abiding.

 

It seems to be an activist organization devoted to aiding illegal aliens, not a formal 'university' in the higher-education sense. It doesn't seem to offer any kind of coherent program, certainly not degrees. Instead it offers a tiny selection of CLEP preparation classes and a place for teenage illegals to socialize.

Courses - Freedom University Georgia

The very positive (of course) New Yorker story says that the occasion for starting this thing was the State of Georgia passing a law excluding Obama's DACA kids from five of Georgia's most in-demand state schools. According to the story there are 35 public higher education institutions in Georgia, so illegal alien applicants are apparently still eligible to apply to 30 of them. I'm sure that the reasoning there was that if legal residents are being turned away from the more desirable schools, there's no justification for people who are in the country illegally taking their places.

It's hard to see that "Freedom University" in any way replicates what the University of Georgia or Georgia Tech offer. I think that this thing is mostly just a publicity stunt and another onanistic exercise in 'virtue signalling'.

Freedom University Georgia - Home

 

The word "university" is often applied to any outfit that provides a set of educational activities; so in this case, it's used appropriately. Just like Trump University, though, this is not a "university" of the degree-granting sort. Unlike Trump University, it is not aimed at defrauding its students.

Political debate offers interesting glimpses into human condition. For example, you use the term "teenage illegals" here, seemingly without stopping to reflect on the concept of "child criminals" and whether it even makes sense. Fascinating. This happens at the Left too.

Because it doesn't. Duh.

 

Here is some line-shifting for yah:

Trump reassures farmers immigration crackdown not aimed at their workers | Fox News

 

Really?

I suggest you visit the emergency department of any city hospital on any given night, and you'll probably start shifting your opinion. The ER's are packed with illegals, using the hospital as their primary care physician. Do you think the hospitals, and by extension us (the taxpayers) ever see a penny for the services rendered?

Also, here are some people who would vehemently disagree with you; the first 2 are dead, so they can't lodge a protest, but their families would be glad to do so;

Kate Steinle murder trial set for February

Vigil held for Milford crash victim Matthew Denice - News - Milford Daily News - Milford, MA

Boy Seriously Hurt in DUI Crash Involving Illegal Immigrant Deported 15 Times | Fox News Insider

Those were just three off the top of my head

In addition, there are thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands of living people who would also vehemently disagree with you; those who have their identities stolen by illegal aliens, their credit and their finances ruined. I've lost count of how many reports that I've personally taken for that over the years.

Sure, and drug dealers are self-employed pharmaceutical distributors, bank robbers make non-traditional monetary withdrawals, and people who pump gas are petroleum transfer engineers.

It's stupid, and tries to put a shine on a sneaker.

Please Steve, you're better than that.

When you come to a foreign country and violate the laws of that country, you do so at your own peril. Just about every other civilized country in the world enforces their immigration laws, why should the United States be the exception?

 

Well, the article I linked above seems to suggest the agribusiness has an argument or two for "exceptions" the administration finds persuasive. How come?

Let me get this argument straight: Freedom U. students, teenage DACA recipients, should be deported - because alleged illegal aliens are stealing identities? Collective responsibility?

 

The biggest story when I came to Canada: Robert Dziekansky, an innocent legal immigrant, dead by the hand of RCMP officers. These were the feds, a national symbol and supposed elite. Should I argue getting rid of law enforcement based on this?

 

I don't have much to add. Some of these kids don't speak Spanish even though some may have dark skin, and they will be mocked for that in Mexico! Horrible situation. I have heard the ugly comments. Their life will be a living hell.

 

Simply by being here, illegals are effectively saying 'fuck you' to the laws of the United States. They are announcing that the law only applies to them if it helps them realize their desires. Otherwise they aren't bound by the law.

That does tremendous harm to the whole idea of the rule of law. Generalized into a principle, it would seem to justify not enforcing environmental, labor, financial, occupational health and safety, civil rights and criminal laws, whenever a particular law gets between somebody and something they desire.

But isn't that precisely when laws are most necessary? When thieves want to steal, when employers want to screw their employees, when polluters want to pollute?

They typically work under the table for cash and if so they aren't paying taxes. Yet their kids are typically enrolled in public schools. They use other public services as well, as Bruce pointed out they fill hospital emergency rooms. The educational quality of public schools plummets when less than half of their students even speak English.

They work, often in low-skilled occupations that they increasingly dominate, while unemployment among Americans is highest among precisely that low-skilled manual labor class. So competition by illegals is probably one of the fundamental causes for unemployment in the US, especially in vulnerable populations.

They need places to live, which often means taking over poor neighborhoods and displacing the vulnerable populations who live there.

They are one of the major unacknowledged causes for the 'homeless' problem. Decades ago, big cities had many 'skid-row' single-room-occupancy hotels that provided low-cost accommodation for the poor, for people on welfare and those with psychiatric difficulties. Today those same residential hotels are filled with foreigners, often recent arrivals in this country. The people who used to live in these places are now on the streets.

Their problem isn't just that they lack legal residency 'documents' (as if somebody simply forgot to issue them the necessary papers), the problem is that they don't legally qualify for those documents. That's usually the result of how they entered the country. They crossed the border illegally, they illegally overstayed their visas, or whatever it was. There's almost always an element of intentional law-breaking involved with how they got here.

The issue here isn't laws excluding particular nationalities or ethnic groups. The issue is the necessity that foreigners of any and all nationalities and ethnicities obey the laws of the United States if they desire to live here.

Many of these foreigners say that they want to come to America precisely because their native countries don't have the rule of law. So at the very least, they need to honor American law as a condition of their remaining here. They shouldn't be trying to convert the United States into some kind of disfunctional image of wherever they come from.

 

Conservatives stand for their understanding of "order" - everyone "knowing their place". Undocumented immigrants, then, especially the ones trying to protest real or perceived mistreatment, are insolent and must be punished. Observe how no one complains about the farm industry requesting - and Trump, in person, granting! - that undocumenteds who toil on their field are to be left alone (despite breaking the exact same written rules). Or how no one is interested in at least somewhat murky immigration history of Melania Trump (who is, one note, is above most people socially as a FLOTUS). Needless to say, I disagree with this perspective.

 

Considering what happened in Manchester last night, political debates now seem pointless and silly, so I'm suspending my participation in this for now, and will revisit it at a later time.

 

I have not agreed with you much, however, I am with you on this. The debate is too polarized, both sides are correct and wrong at the same time.