Free College Is Now a Reality in Nearly 30 States

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by LevelUP, Jun 20, 2022.

Loading...
  1. LevelUP

    LevelUP Member

  2. TEKMAN

    TEKMAN Semper Fi!

    Community colleges should be FREE, every year I get charged for $900.00 taxes on the property for community college.
     
  3. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    I like the idea of community college having a sticker price, but then reducing that to 0 for people who fall in certain categories like financial need or academic merit. Trent University in Ontario used to have a 100% tuition/fees scholarship for high school students entering the school with a 90% average. If they maintained a 4.0 in college, they would continue to receive the same.

    If you make college 100% free, my concern would be that you'd have people attending program after program (maybe waiting out a recession) and not actually moving on, since there's no fees for them. Maybe this is an overblown fear. What happens in those few Nordic and European countries where schooling is effectively free?
     
  4. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    It's way, way harder to enter school in the first place, so they wind up getting American degrees.
     
    Johann likes this.
  5. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    And I think that's as it should be. Way. way harder to get in -- and way. way cheaper once you're in. But I don't think it's gonna happen.
     
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    I'm more of a fan of access to opportunity, I suppose.
     
    Rachel83az likes this.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    In the Euro system - young people can make that opportunity by their performance in school. Not necessarily by their parents' connections, money - or borrowed euros, though those will work to varying extent everywhere. They work to a very high extent here - though not always, as Felicity Huffman and others have found out. I still loved her, on Wisteria Lane, though.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  8. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    The problem with the Euro system is that you're possibly locked into university/not-university from around 7th grade or so. If you're a student who blossoms in HS, despite doing poorly in elementary school, you have an uphill battle to be allowed to attend university. If you are someone who got locked in to the university path but you struggled in HS and only barely passed your exams, you still get to go to university without as many issues.
     
  9. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Then like a lot of late bloomers, in the European system I'd have been thrown away.
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    But you can still choose not to go, if you don't want to, right?
     
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    But you'd have made a pile of dough, once you were trained as a CNC machine whiz, right? :) If people are shut out - they either accept it or fight their way onto the books at some future point. The same as here, there are plenty of Europeans who earn degrees later, rather than sooner. They even have Degree Forums, as we do. And plenty of people who don't go to Uni, but still have good and remunerative lives.

    I'm not speaking of any individual person, here - but I've long held the view that in North America, too large a proportion of people attends university. This side of the pond, there are major problems that have arisen because people have been programmed that they "have" to go to Uni and predatory financial schemes make it possible on 'easy' credit that is as far from 'easy' as you can get. Now there is nearly 2 trillion dollars outstanding. People owe 'mortgages' - but where are their houses? And you have baristas with Master's degrees, etc. (If they're lucky).

    European countries are trying to funnel the likeliest successes into the Uni system. It's far from perfect - but I think it's better than ours.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  12. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Canada (or at least, Ontario) uses something similar to stream students. There are two main streams from Grade 9: Academic and Applied. The courses and course codes indicate what level they are at. MPM1D = Grade 9 Math, Academic and MFM1P = Grade 9 Math, Applied. In Grade 11, these courses get renamed to "University" and "College" and the course codes change (e.g. MCV4U = Calculus and Vectors, University Preparation and MCT4C = Mathematics for College Technology, College Preparation.)

    If you took only C-level courses, you'll not be eligible to enter a university and will have to go with a college, which means limited transfer opportunities to get to university. There are some opportunities to switch some of your courses over from Applied to Academic but basically by the start of Grade 10 you're locked in until you graduate. To echo your example, if you're someone who scored 60s in your U-level courses you'll still get to go to a university, but if you're someone who got 90s in C-level courses you're still blocked from attending university.

    Your options to go are:
    • Wait until you're 21 and attain "Mature Student Status"
    • Enroll for a year at a college in a University-prep Program and then transfer (note that none of your credits transfer so you're still out $6K-10K for the year of college)
    • Attend an online school like Athabasca that will admit you regardless, but miss out on the benefits of in-person learning
     
    Rachel83az likes this.
  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Those are not-too-bad options, as I see it. I took option 1 - I waited till I was 50, even though I had the requisite HS stuff back in 1959 - 60.

    There's a fourth option. Go to Community College for 2 years and earn a diploma. Then, nowadays at least, you CAN make use of those credits. Some universities (not all) will give you TIME SERVED (full 2 years off your degree program). When I graduated from Community College (1989 - i was 46) you could hardly expect to get any credit for it at Canadian Uni's - at least those in Ontario. But some really good US schools right across the border would give you 50% tuition and put you into third year, with that same diploma.

    Say, didn't Athabasca give you credit for your College Diploma? I seem to remember them offering 'time served' as well?
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
    Dustin likes this.
  14. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    Great points as usual, Johann!

    Many of the Ontario universities (York, Ryerson, UOIT/Ontario Tech, Lakehead, and Laurentian were the ones I spoke to directly with this policy) would give you one year credit for a 2-year diploma (see p.4 and check the ** at the bottom for a typo.)

    University of Toronto would only give something like 9 credits. Athabasca is the only school I reached out to that would give me 2 years credit, which is why I ended up attending there. Weirdly, 3-year diplomas get you only 2.5 years off, not the 3 you might expect. And, in a further wrinkle, Ontario diplomas in business were treated differently at Athabasca than those of any other. Whereas Athabasca would give 2 years credit towards a 4 year BComm with a Business Administration diploma from most provinces, they'd only give 1.5 years for an Ontario diploma.

    Edit: Whoops, corrected the 3-year diploma transfer credit.
     
  15. Rachel83az

    Rachel83az Well-Known Member

    You can choose not to go, yes. But why should someone who struggled in HS be allowed to attend university over someone who straightened up and did well in HS?
     
  16. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Perhaps the best way to avoid having to decide who gets a seat on the lifeboat is to have enough lifeboats?
     
  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I just missed the time limit to add: The 2-year "time served" option is more common in the West - which is, of course, where Athabasca is. The West is used to doing this for their own. And a 2-year college program there is most often an Associate Degree these days, not a diploma - so it's easy to implement the "time served" policy.

    And as you point out, Ontario Universities are very haughty and high-handed when it comes to credit for college studies. I'd go so far as to say, they treat many College grads like crap. In College I was a classic "late bloomer." A real "born again" student. I think that was because I liked school more than my job - and saved my best effort for class. :) When I went to college in my 40s, I racked up the best marks of my life, to that point. So much so, that good American schools across the border would give me "time served" AND a 50% tuition break, due to my marks.

    When it came to my local Uni, at 50, I was grudgingly given six whole credits for the same diploma - the attitude was that to get anything at all was a sacred privilege. I loved that school -- great learning time, but the administration .... It's been nearly 30 years and I haven't forgotten. I have no use for those people whatsoever, for half-a-dozen reasons. And I have a grandchild, who went to college right after high school, did well, and much more recently, got even worse treatment, from a different Ontario Uni.

    Maybe I should write our "Premier Dropout," Doug Ford, who quit Community College during his first year, because "the lectures were too boring." No, why bother writing him? I have no use for him either. Doug Ford hates education and educators. Thanks for informing me of his attempt to cancel the Francophone University. It cheered me no end to know Franco-Ontarians were successful in stopping him.

    I despise that man. I won't waste good hatred on him, though. Too fine and precious an emotion to squander on the likes of Ford.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
    Dustin likes this.
  18. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Bien joué, mes amis! (Well-played, my friends!)
     
    Dustin likes this.
  19. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes. And make sure they have no holes - and that a ride in one doesn't cost like a mansion and put the passenger into a lifetime of debt slavery. The lifeboat operators - and the moneylenders - are far too greedy. Why should a lifeboat ride cost so much? It's like an ambulance charging $200K for a ride to hospital!

    IIRC, I'll still be able to get across the Styx for two coins. I've put 'em aside... an extra or two, in case of Underworld inflation. See y'all there -- eventually. :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I should explain - I never took them up on the offer, as I was still working f/t and several years out from my planned early retirement. These were f/t on-campus programs -this was 1989.
     

Share This Page