Fascinating Discussion of PsyD vs PhD and other Online Issues

If you type it s-l-o-w-e-r you might end up being more accurate.

 

But is there any less utility in reality in a Nationally Accredited DBA versus one from Walden (insert corporate ed name here) ? Most of the folks getting those PhDs are not deluded enough to believe they are entering traditional full time tenure track academia. They are getting them as you note to call themselves doctor or for intellectual stimulation (perhaps advantage in their career). For them a Nationally Accredited doctorate may make the same difference and accomplish the same goals at a fraction of the cost. It still gives them accredited doctoral level study but does not put them in debt until the second coming.

Are people going to be as impressed with a Columbia Southern DBA as one from the U of Kentucky? Probably not. But one from the University of Phoenix, Walden, etc ain't likely to impress them over U of Kentucky either. All accredited. Walden grad is 60 to 90 grand in debt.

 

There are people with RA, non-traditional doctorates teaching at RA schools that require instructors to have RA degrees.

 

Hmmm. That's not very nice, is it?

 

There remain distinct differences between RA and NA. Especially when people have heard of neither school.

I think UoP is a dual-edged sword. On the one hand, it is RA, which really does matter. On the other hand, it's become the archetype for anyone wanting to criticize either online or for-profit schools (or both). After all, when criticizing the fast food industry, no one mentions Burger King.

So, with a very small number of exceptions, I'd prefer to wield an RA doctorate over one from an NA school, and one from Walden over any comparable NA degree. There are still a great number of employers who will simply not recognize NA. While we don't know the exact magnitude, it's palpable.

 

There are a few but some of them were already employed at the Masters level. I did not include Community College in the term academia but probably many more there.

 

There are many non-traditional schools (for-profit and non-profit) that need people with doctoral degrees to teach graduate-level courses. Also, I've come across community colleges that pay more for a doctoral degree. I didn't really pay attention to their policies on accreditation, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of them didn't recognize NA degrees for additional pay.

 

Agreed. I know people who have graduated from non traditional programs and teach as adjunct faculty at places like Kaplan.

 

All things being equal, I too would want an RA doctorate and would choose Walden. It is not that I believe for one second that Walden provides a better education than say Harrison Middleton University but simply a matter of general utility. Things are not equal. If I were to pursue a doctorate to learn at the doctoral level, to have an accredited doctorate, and possibly to have some value in my career I would choose the Nationally Accredited doctorate over going 75,000 or so in debt at a for profit institution like the U of P or Walden.

If I were a Community College instructor and wanted the boost in pay I may well need the RA doctorate of some kind. Same with a school administrator or a Masters level prof at a university who wanted a little more respect. But if someone thinks they are going to go to U of P and get a doctorate and then start on a tenure track professorship at a major institution......probably not.

I would imagine that for the vast majority of people simply getting a doctorate to expand their knowledge base and to call themselves doctor, the Nationally Accredited doctorate would have done as well. It is accredited and much....much...cheaper.

The idea of pumping out in debt non traditional RA doctoral graduates to be adjunct or even full time on line faculty at other non traditional low prestige Regionally Accredited schools means there needs to be an ongoing bunch of students fed into the system and supplied with student loans to keep the wheels turning. We have already seen some of that slowing down (U of P) and Congress questioning the value and rationale behind this. If I recall, graduate students make up about 16% of students but account for 40% of student loan debt. We all saw the list of schools where that debt was amassed.

 

Those are good points, but the issue of utility remains. As long as someone understands the limited utility of pursuing a degree that is not regionally accredited, then the onus of the limited utility is on them.

 

If someone can afford to spend 75k on a RA doctorate, then bless their soul. If someone is single (no family to support) or if they are wildly financially successful, then spending 75k might be an option. But it's not a reasonable option for the average person.

There are ways to get a less expensive RA doctorate. It may take good timing, opportunity and planning, but it can be done -- and it is done. I got one for 10k, but I was in the right place at the right time e.g. opportunity knocked and I accepted.

Pursuing an RA doctorate for a pay increase at a community college is not a good ROI, especially considering that the attrition rate is about 50 percent.

If that's the only utility that is sought, then that's an acceptable case. However, many European countries will not call a DEAC graduate "doctor" because U.S. "national" accreditation is not recognized in their academic system.

There has been a glut of RA doctoral holders in the U.S. for many years. In the 1960s, there were many complaints about that. Nothing has changed.

 

Yes, but online education has made this glut a lot worse. It is common to see people now with multiple doctorates and masters degrees. Take the case of Roberto Rodriguez

https://www.linkedin.com/in/robertomrodriguez

The guy has several doctorates, about ten masters and several bachelors degrees most from online places like Excelsior, Athabasca, etc.

The guy seems to be a real estate agent so I cannot imagine why he would need so many degrees.

We are getting to a point where getting a doctorate or a masters is just about paying some money and doing some online essays and submitting a dissertation that does not need to be publishing material, otherwise, how can you explain people like Miguel that can get 30 or 40 degrees in a life time if it was that difficult.

 

Wow! I got tired scrolling. There is a clunker or two in there but also some very good schools. Assuming it is accurate, how do you do that?

The other thing is that it is overwhelming wading through it. It almost becomes unfocused.

How much is too much?

 

It is just about learning how the system works, many online courses are just about posting some online essays and discussions. If you are good at putting essays together quite fast and type really fast, you can manage to get one or two masters per year.

In the old days, getting a masters would mean to commute to down town, meet with group members during the weekend, go to the library to do research, attend presentations, etc. Nowadays is just about posting some online discussions and essays that normally get graded with a B or an A as long as they meet some minimum standards and have a credit card that clears when you pay tuition.

 

Well, this is an extreme case.

Two observations. First, listing every freaking course you've ever taken anywhere is really, really counter-productive on LinkedIn. People who see that profile experience a great deal of noise as they figure out what's really happening there. It's stupid.

Second, the doctorates are iffy. SMC isn't accredited, nor recognized as a university. Euclid is highly evasive. JD is from an unaccredited school. He lists his two doctorates from Canterbury University as being from the UK. Canterbury is not recognized as a degree-awarding authority in the UK. He lists a doctorate from the University of Minnesota--Twin Cities. This is a legitimate school. But then he lists a doctorate from Commonwealth Open University, which is not recognized as a university anywhere.

I can't even begin to parse the master's degrees he claims.

You know what I think when I see all of this? I wonder about the degrees claimed from properly accredited schools. Does he have them? It is very easy to purchase look-alike diplomas. I'm not saying he did that, but why obscure legitimate degrees with ones from unrecognized organizations?

No matter what, this person is an anomaly and has nothing to do with the point about degree inflation. Nor is he relevant to how hard or easy degrees may have become. If you accept this as prima facie evidence of this purported phenomenon, then boo-hoo for you.

 

I paid about $65K for my RA Phd at Union. I paid about $US20k for my doctorate from Leicester.

 

Well, there is always this Canterbury University which does grant doctoral degrees. Has a mailbox in Seychelles.https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canterbury_University_(Seychelles)

 

What blows me away is that many of this transcripts and diploma supplements apparently list his Birthdate and Home Address.

Whaaattttt?

 

I doubt that degrees are fake, why would a real estate agent care about displaying fake credentials? If these were fake credentials, it wouldn't make sense to get a Master of Arts in Liberal Arts from Excelsior or a Master in integrative studies from Athabasca that are not the typical degrees that people want to get to impress others. If you look close at his transcripts, many masters degrees were earned based on credit transfer from another masters degrees. For example, the MS in LS from Excelsior allows 15 credits from another Masters, so one can earn a second masters with only extra 18 credits, the same stands for Athabasca. Few of his BS degrees follow the same logic, you transfer 90 credits from an old BS and then get a new one by completing 30 more credits. It looks to me like the guy understand very well the system and just plays with it in order to keep getting credentials.