Dr. didn't know his PhD wasn't one or how his mentors obtained it for him.

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by newsongs, Feb 20, 2020.

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  1. newsongs

    newsongs Member

  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    "Sisk said he was unaware his PhD was not valid and claims his mentors filed for it on his behalf. "

    Yeah. I hate it when that happens.

    Idiots in the discussion thread are calling Capella a degree mill. The know-nothings rule our country now.
     
  3. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    The majority of people just won't (or can't) apply critical thinking and judge schools individually the way they judge every other type of business, and that problem is propped up by the fact that there are many people who only see for-profit corporations as businesses but don't believe non-profit corporations are businesses, smh. But, here is at least some hope from one person in the thread:
    • MadMax1641 16 hours ago
    Reply to @sbeaty: Not true at all. For-profit does not equal a diploma mill. As an educator, you should know better. Capella has regional accreditation by the Higher Learning Commission; National Council for Accreditation of Teacher Education; Council for Accreditation of Counseling and Related Educational Programs (CACREP); Commission on Collegiate Nursing Education; Accreditation Council for Business Schools and Programs since 2014; and, the Accreditation Board for Engineering and Technology, Inc (ABET).

    Sadly, the mainstream media has done a great job with the demonization of for-profit schools, and the public generally can't think for itself so they adopt whatever gets thrown at them. The MSM has done it for so long that it's practically if not entirely irreversible at this point.
     
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  4. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

    My first reaction to that whole "I didn't know . . . my mentors . . . oh yeah, they're deceased now . . . " thing was clearly such a lie. Those pants are burning up! Oh yeah, he got fired (or, he "resigned.") Restores my faith in humanity a tiny bit (although they should have caught it on the front end.)

    https://www.wjhl.com/news/local/bristol-tenn-boe-votes-to-accept-director-of-schools-tom-sisks-resignation-appoints-interim-director/

    and here's a story that suggests that not only is Sisk a liar, he's also a racist. I'm hoping he doesn't go for the trifecta.

    https://www.heraldcourier.com/news/local/btcs-internal-complaints-accuse-former-schools-director-of-racist-remarks/article_ac9948a8-ae36-59f8-a36b-3db33337f1ad.html
     
  5. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    He tried the old "my position doesn't require a doctorate, so ignore it" plea. This is usually used by the employer wanting to rationalize the decision to retain someone despite a bogus degree claim. Surprisingly, they didn't buy it. I wonder if they wanted him out and used this as a way to do it.

    I think any person telling that lie should be dismissed, whether or not the degree was necessary for the job. It's a huge integrity issue. What else might he lie about?
     
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  6. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Agreed: The demonization of for-profit schools, rather, the painting of all of them with the same broad brush, is stupid.

    Disagreed: Any invocation of the phrase "mainstream media" as you are using it goes off the rails quickly into foil hat territory.

    The reason? It implies that there is some more reliable media out there. There really isn't. Beyond the "mainstream media" there are idiot bloggers who develop cult followings for stupid reasons. See also: reasons why my father refuses to socially distance because his favorite YouTuber told him this is all a hoax by BigPharma and Dr. Fauci is really just trying to steal his guns.

    Has the media latched onto the for-profit craze? Yes, and in true form they neglect to mention the differences between schools. I have seen reports that conflate for-profit with nationally accredited, implying that all for-profit schools are something other than RA and, as such, cannot transfer to "real" schools. It is, however, sloppy attempts at journalism more than a vicious cabal designed to bring about a New World Order. Sensational headlines sell. Clickbait sells.

    I have noted, however, that Sen. Durbin seems to have toned down his rhetoric quite a bit ever since his fellow Senator from the state of Illinois showed up on the scene with a stack of military medals and an obviously well earned PhD from Capella.

    In my humble opinion, if there was a test case for a "good" big box for-profit school, it would be Capella. Graduates of their doctoral programs in Psych regularly go on to get licensed. Nurses are big consumers of their Masters programs. And among HR folks, Capella is easily the most common Masters to be seen followed closely by Walden. And, of course, you have the more affordable options like APUS and ACE that blow the whole "it's just a scam for federal dollars" argument out of the water as well.

    This all, however, is nuanced thinking from someone who does a lot of thinking about this topic. Some or all of you may disagree with me. However, I'm sure we can all agree that all of us think about and understand the topic better than some rando writer of content for the Huffington Post. The issue is not the "mainstream media" but the fact that 1) many media companies rely solely on clickbait titles and 2) people are no longer interested in learning more about a topic beyond the clickbait headline.

    I have found, for what its worth, the most balanced news service to be Al Jazeera. I have enjoyed their coverage for years. While there are most certainly areas of Middle East intrigue where people have alleged bias (particularly as it relates to anything about Qatar where they are headquartered) they are so far less sensational than most US based media outlets that I find I tend to go there and BBC for most of my news about the U.S.

    I did, at least, until my employer blocked Al Jazeera from work computers on account of our then-CEO's perception that Al Jazeera was a "terrorist newsletter." He also mandated that the televisions in our breakroom play Fox News non-stop but that is a gripe for another day.
     
  7. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Mine, too. Capella's beginnings were very exciting. Originally called "The Graduate School of America" (in Minneapolis, natch), it burst on the scene well-funded and very sound academically. Offering master's and doctoral degrees at first, Capella earned candidacy in less than a year. It became fully accredited in much less time than the typical 5 years after candidacy. A combination of solid funding, respected academic staff (including a former president of Saybrook), and the rise of the internet proved to be a powerful concoction.
     
  8. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    It definitely doesn't do that at all. You only think that because of the negative personal perception you've formed about the term being used. For instance:

    Notice that I never mentioned anything approaching that angle, but you connected all of that with the very mention of the term "mainstream media".

    I disagree. Media today is spread far and wide. Reliability is scattered, but it's out there. Filtering and consumption of that information is the responsibility of the individual. An objective discerning person can dissect and make a sound decision on what is valuable information and what isn't, the problem is that there aren't as many objective and discerning people as there are zombies that just believe everything an authority tells them. I personally find no value in what the mainstream media does daily as a matter of practice, boxing with politicians their organization has decided they don't like with each station having their favorites and their foes (that's not objective journalism), creating nonsense controversies, making up stories that turn out to be complete fabrications and outright lies, misreporting facts, and on and on. Let's not even get into this era of media's tendency to make its reporters the news story, it's complete trash. There is alternative media, some of it is great, some of it isn't, and that's where the responsibility of the individual comes into play. But the whole of mainstream media is trash, none of it is good. It's not bad just because of sensationalism, it's bad because of how often the information is untrue, inaccurate, or useless/time-wasting.

    And that's a mistake, but what you're failing to take into account is that the mainstream media spent a large chunk of critical time downplaying the virus, even mocking serious reactions to it. In fact, the head of our government downplayed it and his supporting media outlets that have millions of viewers backed him. Think about the damage all of that did. I also remember a number of alternative media outlets saying he was a fool, the MSM is wrong, the virus was serious, and that a terrible time was coming if we didn't act fast. Because of the information I looked into from alternative media sources (together with some knowledge of gematria), I've been prepared since Event 201. I tried to warn people, they mocked me, and in the end they were all wrong, some of them are sick now, some are about to hit the streets because they didn't prepare, and a few have died including one friend of the family who directed at me the often naively-used "tin foil hat" phrase, I wasn't mad at her, I felt sorry for her because she like most people didn't know better. Had I counted on what the mainstream media and our government was giving me, I might be sick or not even alive right now because the virus was and still is real and people are getting sick and dying, some of them having that happen just because they listened to an irresponsible media and government that left them unprepared for what was coming.
     
  9. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    So, a few things...

    "I didn't say..." nonsense. It's a dog whistle. You laid out a foundation that the mainstream media cannot be trusted. So you wrote off the entirety of all established newspapers and news programs because they cannot be trusted.

    "Mainstream media downplayed the virus..." No, it didn't. As a matter of fact, mainstream media was the first to point out that no one in government was taking this seriously and that many obvious warning signs were being ignored.

    Now, I'm not going to argue with you since you, like many others, are carrying on like you're the lone voice of reason in a sea of hapless sheep. But, more importantly, you let your bias show when you turned a discussion of for-profit schools into how you and your "alternative news sources" knew better about COVID-19 while the rubes were waiting to get picked off and I'm not going to get dragged into a corona virus rabbit hole here.
     
  10. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly

    I agree, and would add that this is a problem all over the ideological map, e.g., people who are just as dismissive of mainstream media as those wearing MAGA hats are, but who think that Jacobin is the reliable alternative rather than NewsMax.[/quote]

    That's the problem -- it's not like people who point out the low quality of mainstream media don't have a point. When you read about Gell-Mann Amnesia and really think about how lame most coverage is on topics with which you're familiar, it's not unreasonable to take nothing they say at face value: https://www.epsilontheory.com/gell-mann-amnesia/

    But rather than switch to ideologically extremist alternatives (even those with which I'm predisposed to agree), I pay more attention to specialty media. For example, I may not take anything about higher education that I read in the Washington Post all that seriously, but I do still respect InsideHigherEd. And speaking of YouTube, there are independent commentators and interviewers on higher education that podcast, or run YouTube channels, who actually add insight.

    Thank goodness. I thought my eyes would roll out of their sockets from all his grandstanding.

    Agreed on all counts. Given my respect for Tony Piña, I can't help but also add Sullivan to the list. I also think the no frills, ultra low cost DEAC accredited schools that don't participate in Title IV make that argument strongly as well.

    Agreed, again. You're batting a thousand today. ;)
     
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  11. Neuhaus

    Neuhaus Well-Known Member

    Let me just clarify, I didn't mean to imply that there are no good YouTubers out there producing good content. There are. If anything, I think social media has lowered the barriers for entry to getting your voice "out there." There are straight up full length shows I watch on YouTube that, years ago, never would have existed unless they convinced a network to take a chance on them. And for viewership of 50k people, that was unlikely to happen. But that's plenty to keep a hobbyist YouTuber in business. It's a good thing.

    But the really out there stuff is well produced. The content itself is garbage, though. The issue, I think, is that historically you turn on the television and watch the news and you knew, generally, what you were getting. News was news. Talk shows were talk shows. Political commentary was political commentary. Those lines have blurred. Now people, instead of fact checking, can shop around for a narrative that suits their interests.

    To one of your other points, I definitely feel that that low cost DEAC schools have a place in the world of education. If you are engaged in some sort of volunteer ministry, I can absolutely see why Nations would provide you a good enough education without forcing you to take on debt, for example.

    I think a big part of the problem is people have historically justified the high tuition cost as being a good investment because an economic return was anticipated. What about the person who just wants a degree for the fun of it? Or to bolster their volunteer work? Or because they want to pursue a modest second career in retirement? I hold out hope that there will be a low cost DL program accredited by CACREP before I've lost too many brain cells to appreciate it.
     
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  12. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I sure did say that, and I stand by it based on decades of untrustworthy behavior from said media, I was clear on that, so I'm not sure what you think you're doing there with the "I didn't say..." gotcha angle. That's way tone deaf to what I've said.

    You can choose to digest or not digest whatever you like. If you trust the mainstream media, trust them. I have zero desire to convince you of anything one way or the other. We all need to do what works for us. This has served me incredibly well so I won't be changing my stance.

    Yeah, you're just flat out wrong and finding examples is incredibly easy:



    https://thefederalist.com/2020/03/24/hypocritical-media-downplays-wuhan-virus-for-weeks-then-critiques-fox-news-for-shifting-rhetoric/

    ^^^ that took all of 2 minutes to find, and that barely scratches the surface.

    SIGH. The irony of you talking about "bias" while defending mainstream media which has become blatantly biased is pure comedy on multiple levels. But, whatever you say, Neuhaus, because if something doesn't agree with you it has to be dismissed, that's pretty much how you approach everything.

    What you have wrong is that I couldn't care less what everybody else chooses to do with this. I talk to people and if they take it they take it, if not, oh well. I knew what I was going to do and I did it. If someone reads it and gets something from it, great. From, what you posted, they will get nothing but the same tired fall-in-line thinking that got us here. After all, you didn't even know that the very media you're defending actually downplayed it and that says it all. There is a possibility that you may not be right about everything, Neuhaus, and that there are some things you actually don't know. Someday, you may consider that possibility, although I won't be holding my breath for that one.
     
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  13. Kizmet

    Kizmet Moderator Staff Member

  14. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    Funny that The Federalist posted that story because I seem to recall an article or two where they themselves downplayed the situation. No one wants to admit they effed up and got it wrong, but many did and there is a media paper trail that they can't erase. The fact that these outlets are all backtracking as if they were all serious about it from day one is pretty damning to their collective integrity.

    It's unfortunate that in this entire exchange between you and Neuhaus, neither of you seem to have realized that you both see the virus as a real threat, and it is. That's the only thing that really matters right now.
     
  15. Maxwell_Smart

    Maxwell_Smart Active Member

    The anxiety is real for many. I myself have been yelled at by people who thought I was too close to them while out in public even though I was at least 6 feet away based on the markers. People are scared. People are in financial free-fall. People are losing it. It's understandable. These are very uncertain times.
     
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