Distancedegree.net Calls It Quits

Ten years ago I surveyed graduates from 6 DL schools, 4 unaccredited and 2 accredited. (I received a total of 197 usable surveys of 550 sent out.) For the most part, graduates of unaccredited schools, when asked to rate accreditation as a reason for pursuing their degrees, rated it rather low. They understood that their programs were not accredited. But there were some anecdotal comments showing that a few people didn't realize their schools were not accredited, or thought that the accreditation claimed was legitimate.

The schools:

Nova (now Nova Southeastern) University
Vermont College
Chadwick University
Sothwest University
William Lyon University
Century University

This survey was to be the basis of my dissertation the first time around. It is packed with interesting information, and I suspect sill-relevant information at that.

 

I probably should have explained myself better. What I meant was that a void was created (unaccredited-friendly board shutting down), and suddenly this new board (with the K-W ad) jumps in to fill the gap.

At the very least, it makes for a good conspiracy theory.


Bruce

 

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Come now, Bill. Everyone knows that the NRA is a subsidiary of RA. The six RA agencies use the NRA (National Rifle Association) as a paramilitary group, you know, to keep non-RA schools at bay.

 

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How woeful are the exegetics of Arminians. By way of correction, I meant: RA =regionally accredited. NRA=not regionally accredited.

Surely you'll believe that's what I meant as you believe old Jacobus A, don't you?


oops, did it again! made DL religious!

 

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The tense of your Greek terms (i.e., RA & NRA) were somewhat vaque, Bill, therefore my exegesis could not be fully developed.

 

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Only among Arminians do nouns and/or adjectives have tense Besides Arminians need no exegesis, just good imaginations

 

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You tell him, Bill...

As long as you have your Scofield Reference Bible handy, noone can ever get the best of you.

ps. You will be able to tense nouns during the Kingdom age.


Kevin

 

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That is something to look forward to instead of the present,
boring, declining of substantives and conjugating of verbals.


Course Russell is right to broach the subject with me as I am always faced with tasks connected to grammar. This morning in my studies I answered an exegete's claim that as the Greek for "proceed" in John 15:26 is present tense that therefore it signifies an eternal, ontological arrangement. This of course is wrong! What I do is so much fun for me that I'd do it even were no degrees awaiting as consequences And re my interpretation of John, who cares if I cross the creed of Epiphanius or trample on the tenets of Nicaea? These can only have their way by changing John's preposition from para(from) to ek(out of).

As has been pointed out to me here, no one else cares about it. Strange that even that observation fails to inhibit my enthusiasm! Like David's, my cup runs over....and so does my speech go on and on too

Sorry for this hijack, I'll shut up about my studies for now!

 

Russell: Thanks, Rich. Very interesting data, and I look forward to reviewing the dissertation.


Cehi: Me too. I am looking forward to reading the inductive, conceptual framework for Rich's dissertation. I have no doubt that it will be very informational.

 

Gosh, I don't even know what that means. I guess you'll be disappointed.

 

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Gee, I got an associate's and two bachelor's by taking just a few classes and a whole bunch of exams. See, it was about outcomes, not inputs. No one measured how hard I worked to acquire the knowledge; they measured the knowledge. The question is whether the fake schools offer sufficient processes to do this. (No.) And if the degrees they issue are bona fide. (Again, no.)

 

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Rich, what follows is not intended as personal with regard to your education.

This issue has been debated for some time even to the graduate level with the increasing number of DL doctoral programs (of which I am involved as is Rich and a number of others). In measuring outcomes not inputs are we not missing a piece of what is education. In other words being able to take a CLEP and regurgitate multiple choice answers at the undergraduate level to qualify misses the boat on what the educational process is. So much of what goes on in the University setting (at least where I went) involves more than memorization, it invovled 'Learning to Learn' and the development of analytical thinking. My *personal* feeling is that the educational process in a traditional university is superior (at least in Canada) because of this drawn out didactic process. Now, having said that I understand that it is not always possible or the most practical route to do that (hence Regents, TESC, etc and those of us doing independent doctoral work). I get to enjoy the virtual interaction with scholars such as Bill, Tom, Russell, Rich, et al but I wonder if something is missed.

I once knew a Sgt. Major who said the difference between someone who has an associates and a bachelors is that the person at the associates level has learned to handle mutliple choice questions. Give them A, B, or C and they can come up with an answer. The bachelors level person can analyze a situation and develop solutions based on it. I wonder if traditonal undergraduate education is not geared more to analysis and the big three more to CLEP.

As I said at the beginning, this is not personal. I have a great deal of respect for the intellectual capabailities of two of the folks I know here with a 'big three' degree (Rich & Tom). Both of these gentlemen are obviously quite intelligent and well read.


North

**Maybe if Tom & Rich would have gone the traditional route they would have developed the correct political perspective but there is still time.
(I say this in humor as I respect the sincerely held political views of both men even though I disagree)

 

Several of the exams in my major (Business) were essay-type, scored by university professors.

During the typical university ages (18-22), I enlisted in the Air Force, served as an educational specialist, went into the Air Force Reserve, made staff sergeant, enrolled in graduate school, and worked for Xerox as a marketing rep. I went to Officer Training School when I was 23. I finished both bachelor's degrees before I turned 21.

I would venture that these experiences were every bit as valuable as an on-campus experience would have been. And having taught at a large university (San Diego State) full-time for 4 years, I think I have a perspective on this.

Most people who do degrees like I did, aren't as young as Tom and I were when we did our degrees. They come to the process with lots of experience and usually with a bunch of credits (and creditable experience).

I learned way more my way, in much less time, than I would have by going to state college.

 

Thank you for sharing your personal experience Rich and clueing me in on the fact that it is not all CLEP m/c exams.

I look forward to seeing PhD after your name.

North

 

Do these Canadian scruples extend to the University of London's 100% exam-based external programme or to the Heriot Watt MBA?

There seem to be several issues here:

1. The virtues of interactivity, collaboration, hands-on practice and the whole "total immersion" full-time experience that are sacrificed in virtually every DL program, to a greater or lesser extent.

I agree that programs with these things are better than those that lack them. That's the main reason why I'm unwilling to call any DL program "top tier", no matter what the reputation of the university that offers it. If somebody wants a "top tier" experience, attend school full-time on-campus.

2. The issue of whether education should be assessed in a process-oriented manner, or in a results-oriented manner. Are prior-learning assessments suspect by their nature? Is it possible to be educated outside a conventional classroom?

I believe that education can occur outside classrooms (that's where it normally occurs), and I'm a strong supporter of prior-learning assessment.

3. Assuming that we accept the idea of prior learning assessment, do particular instruments assess it credibly?

The anecdotal stories I hear about people passing CLEPs without any study or previous exposure to the subject make them suspect in my eyes. They sound too easy. I also share your skepticism about fully assessing the level of understanding expected in a university course entirely through multiple choice exams.

But having said those things, I disagree vehemently with your Sgt. Major's dismissal of lower division courses as merely rote learning. I also disagree strongly with your dismissal of TESC, COSC and Excelsior.

 

I went to a California State school and found many things that were outlined above. Multiple choice tests, and very little learning needed to pass. It is nearly impossible to fail a student, in one of my classes, one of our group memebrs (eveything done in groups ) did not ever show up to class, nor our group sessions, so we decided not to put his name on the paper.

This assignment was 50% of our grade. He came to the class in which we were turning in the assignment, and was shocked we didn't put his name on it. After class the Professor met with our team to find out the details. The four of us explained, and the guy who did no work just sat there.

He got a C.

I met with the Professor after hours to find out why - he said there is SOOOOO much paperwork that has to be compelted if you want to fail a student, that it is not done very often. He literally did nothing and got a C in the class.

I have learned as much in the DL setting as the brick and mortar setting - it is all what you put into it. Also - the Professor said he gets a student like me about one a semester (between all of his classes) - that do all the assignments, come to class, and participate. Isn't that sad!

 

Which is, of course, not true. In the CSU system there is no additional paperwork for giving grades below a C. I've given Ds and Fs in the courses that I've taught for them.

Now, did this professor tell you that? I'm absolutely sure that he did. Doesn't make it the truth, though. Sounds like he just doesn't want to hear about it from the student for failing him.




Tom Nixon