Did Bush Cross the Line?

Lets see....

I am much better off than I was under Clinton and my children will be better off than I was when I left home. The events which have driven manufacturing jobs out of this country started 30 years ago and the vast majority of them were gone by the time Bush entered office. 2/3rds of the manufacturing in my home town left under Carter. The thrird is still there but much smaller.

There is absolutely nothing the president can do about it, anyway. If you think there is feel free to post suggestions here so I can shoot them down. I have posted this challenge many times and have not yet had a valid response. Just so you know, most responses involve repudiating international trade treaties so I like how liberals pick and choose which treaties they want our country to abide by. Kyoto, for. WTO, against. Hypocrisy at its finest. BTW, Kyoto didn't have a hope in Hades of passing the Senate where it was blocked by, among others, the leftist darling
Sen. Byrd.

Don't believe the liberal misinformation train. In fact, the poor are better off today than they were 50 years ago as we actually have experienced deflation on prices for many goods when compared to the overall rate of inflation. The poor is also more likely to have access to health care.

Security? We didn't have any under Clinton. The first WTC attack and planning for the second occured during his presidency. Nevermind the bunch of other terror attacks that occurred during his watch. It is a farce to blame Bush for 9/11 when he hadn't been in office 8 months and planning started 3 years prior to the event.

Forget it, the truth is never proof to the liberal mind....

 

No? If the risk of having someone listen to me talking to the wife about what to get for dinner or even me making lewd suggestions to my wife is the price for security who cares, anyway?

 

I was not defensive.

You gave no analysis. Pure emotion.

What truth? The truth that these practices well predate Bush?

I don't give a crap about Bush. Unlike you, I do care about the issue of this thread. I would never have turned it into a partisan tirade as you did.

Don't threaten me. Don't even think of it.

 

Before the government of an allegedly free people starts spying on its own people, said government should have to show probable cause as to why the people being spied upon are suspected of being spies, traitors, terrorists, etc.

 

Hmmmm...

If you want to plan a terror attack on the USA be sure to do it from within the country. Your planning will be protected....

 

So when should we have shown probable cause, before or after 9/11?

Anyway, you completely ignored my post about you and your family. What's the matter, would you have to acknowledge you would accuse the government of not doing enough to protect you or your family if harmed by terrorists?

 

Considering the attacks of 9/11, fighting two wars, and all the natural disasters, I think the economy is doing pretty well.

For me personally, I am doing much better than I did under Jimmy Carter, Reagan, Bush 41, or Bill Clinton!

 

Didn't you once claim that you would still be against the death penalty, even if your wife was raped and murdered?

 

Same standards should apply for showing of probable cause, pre- or post-9/11.

 

You just cannot be honest can you? The death penalty and my question to you are in no way related. Are you always so disconnected from reality?

Once again, if you and your family were harmed by terrorists, would you not be upset the government didn't do anything to prevent it, including spying on them?

To simplify this for you: If your local police believed a neighbor of yours was going to break into your home and harm you and your family, but could only prove it by breaking into that person's home or by listening in on his phone calls, are you going to tell us you'd oppose these actions?

Be realistic and pragmatic here, not idealistic and political.

 

Re: Re: Re: Did Bush Cross the Line?

Don't statements like this cause you any shame at all?

Most people would consider me on the left (although I am not a Democrat). I am also a veteran. I support the troops, albeit not the war, just as much as you or anyone. I rarely believe anything terrorists say (amazingly enough).

Simplistic answers such as yours are rarely that simple. It's answers like this that continue to widen the divide in this country.


Tom Nixon

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Bush Cross the Line?

Actually it's statements like "I support the troops, albeit not the war," that divide and confuse.

How can you do that? If you support the troops then you support the war. The troops are fighting a war.

Statements like this are weak-kneed, weasel words that try to have it both ways.

The troops are in Iraq. They are fighting a war. If you support them, you support the war.

Be a man and don't be a weak-livered, yellow belly. Either support the war or admit you don't support the troops. Again, you can't have it both ways.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Bush Cross the Line?

I retract the pejorative adjectives and apologize to you, Tom.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Bush Cross the Line?

Apparently, your shame has no bounds. Thankfully, I am a Christian so I understand fully that I am not your enemy. It saddens me that apparently I am yours.

And yet again, I would do everything to protect the troops, I would do everything to make sure that they have all of the equipment that they need, I would do (and am doing) everything to support their families at home. As it happens, I have a family member serving in Iraq right now. I am proud of his service to his country. I can do all of that and still believe that we got lost after Afghanistan.



Tom Nixon

 

Disconnected from reality? Such uncharitable words from the mouth of a man of God! And, yes, the death penalty question posed to you and the probable cause for search and siezure question you now pose to me are indeed related, and in this manner: Why is it that you think you would be able to continue to oppose the death penalty even if your wife was raped and murdered [as you yourself once said in a previous thread] but you don't think that I would be able to continue arguing in support of constitutional rights against unreasonable search and siezure even if my relatives had been in the Twin Towers? If you think that you could maintain one political position even in the face of family tragedy, then I don't see why you should claim that others could not do the same.

 

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Did Bush Cross the Line?

And yet you didn't accept my apology!

 

What are you, nuts or something? Who's threatening who here? This is a bulletin board, for chrissakes, not the OK corral!

And.... I'll post whatever I feel like posting, especially when it gives me a chance to present a much-needed alternative view to the crap that you and your fellow-traveller drones believe about our nation's policies these days....

 

First of all, being a minister doesn't create immunity from speaking freely. Second, saying you are "disconnected from reality" is not uncharitable. Perhaps you should read what Jesus said to Peter and government officials.

Third, you are 100% correct when you said

However, in no other post did you admit this. Thanks for finally answering my question and I commend your consistent position.

 

Don't get upset, Carl, you are one of the few on here who can participate in the exchange of ideas without taking disagreeing comments personally.

Take care!

 

Re: Hmmmm...

Whether that is so or not, I'd have to ask one of the lawyers on the list. The answer to that question would, of course, depend on three things: (a) whether the alleged terrorists are domestic or foreign; (b) whether or not foreigners have the same rights in the US court system as citizens; and (c) whether the US government had any hope of catching those in foreign countries plotting terrorism against the US.