death row prisoners

Exactly.

Can you name your sources for such a statement?

Semantics....you know what I meant. At any rate, 143 innocent people have been spared death row, and you can't name one innocent person put to death in the United States. Doesn't that indicate that the system works?

No, I said "innocent". There is a huge difference between "not guilty" and "innocent".

 

Prison is not necessarily easy for these people but isn't it a bit sad that society depends or hopes that the prison inmates will administer a justice that the system won't.

It has been my experience that the child molesters and murders do end up in protection but usually have the company of the others of the same ilk so life is not too difficult for them.

Perhaps we need a system that administers justice on behalf of the community and reinforces community values. It is my belief that acts must have consequences that are real and meaningful so the rule of law prevails with all society, not just those who are bound by strong moral values and who will obey it anyway. This doesn't mean that mercy is denied,more that is judiciously given and based upon contrition and contributing circumstances. I suspect at the moment it is an automatic expectation.

It may simply be a case that the pendulum has swung too far. I have seen many offenders at close range and I don't see too much contrition for their victims. I do see a lot of self pity and self interest.

 

Warren McCleskey
Wayne Felker
Girvies Davis
David Wayne Spence
Jesse Tafero
Pedro Medina

I know that is more than one, but I hope it is OK.

Since these people have been executed there is little impetus for the State to further investigate, but in each of these cases substantial, reliable evidence points not to their guilt but away from it. Were they all not guilty of murder, I have no idea, but I am quite convinced that one if not all were executed in error.

I was a police officer in Tampa, albeit only for nine months since our fine mayor at the time laid off my entire new-recruit class. Most went on to work for the S.O. I had had enough of people spitting on me and treating me like I was an idiot so I choose another career.

That said I have always been against killing people after the fact. ( I am against killing people before the fact as well). Could I shoot someone about to shoot me, certainly but that is not the question. Judicially sanctioned execution is not needed to maintain law and order.

However I think Muima Abu Jamal and those of his ilk should spend the rest of their lives in prison, and not a pleasant prison but a dank cramped cell. I am not even opposed to caning people if we find corporal punishment useful, but killing people is irrevocable.

Killing people is not the answer to any question. Abortion, execution, murder; these are all grave sins.

The loss of life in pursuit of a just cause in the case of shooting someone before they shoot me, or in a just war to end genocide is a very regrettable but unfortunately real effect of mans' inhumanity.

Pax Vobiscum.

Matthew

 

Okay....prove their innoncence. You really didn't think I'd just accept a bunch of names at face value?

Mumia Abu-Jamal hardly has it tough in prison. He is the darling of the Hollywood Left, and has delivered the commencement speech, via videotape, at quite a few colleges & universities. He is a classic example of Joseph Goebbel's theory...a lie repeated often enough becomes the truth. If he had been executed as scheduled, I have the feeling his name would have been added to your above list.

 

No, you didn't. Here's your quote:

 

And exactly what type of proof would you accept?

There are some people who have been exonerated who had no motive, who had multiple witnesses who testified they were in a different place, and whose DNA did not match that of the perpetrator. In some cases, another person even confessed to the crime. Yet you refer to them as "supposedly not gulity." Obviously, there is no way that anyone could ever prove to you that someone on death row is actually innocent.

 

Fair enough.

Your "proof" only shows that the system works. Name one innocent person who has been executed in the United States.

Just one.

 

Fine. How about Bridget Bishop, who was executed by your fine state. Of course, I'm sure that you can demonstrate how she was guilty of witchcraft, so the execution was perfectly reasonable.

 

I can't prove their innocence, and they most certainly were criminals who deserved imprisonment probably until they drew their last breath but they, nor anyone else should be executed. In each of the cases I mentioned excuplatory evidence has been found, police or prosecutors have remarked that they don't think the defendants were guilty of the crime for which they were executed, or witnesses admitted lying.

However my argument against execution is not that we may execute an innocent man, but that we shouldn't be executing anyone. Execution is not needed to maintain law and order.

While I did jump into the "we may have executed an innocent" argument, that is not my main objection to the death penalty.

Prison may be too nice for these vile sociopaths. Small concrete boxes seems just the place for them. Keep them confined until they die. Just don't kill them. That way if we do find out we made a mistake we can free them with some compensation to make up for their years in a cell. I know it is hard to compensate someone for taking his freedom, it is impossible to compensate someone for taking his life.


There is no way I could prove any of those that were executed not guilty of the crime for which they were executed, they are no longer able to assist in their defense.

I'm not soft on criminals by any means, I am just opposed to killing people.

Of course it is too bad someone didn't kill Abu Muima Jamal when he had the gun in his hand shooting the police office. Journalist my ass he is a murderous piece of trash and the liberal nuts have jumped on his bandwagon.

 

What year was that, Jeff?

16-something?

 

Therefore, they can't be presented as examples of people who have been wrongly put to death.

I asked for a list of innocent people that have been put to death in the United States, and you responded with six (6) names. When I asked for proof of their innocence, you stated that you couldn't prove their innocence.

What next????

 

BO79, your idea is a good one. I hope you act on this desire and DO IT! All the best!

 

Bruce,

I will ask once again: What type of proof would you accept to demonstrate a person's innocence?

 

Of course they can be presented as examples of people who have wrongly been put to death. Anyone executed has wrongly been put to death.

Now as for retrials or something similar, I am of the impression you have to be alive for those, so in killing these people they took away any chance for a retrial.

I suppose if I was independently wealthy, not employed, a lawyer from a law school in the US ( My LLB is from Ireland - they don't execute people there so my capital defense would be subpar), and able to use the power of subpoena to compel testimony I could probably convince you that these people did not commit the murders for which they were executed. That is if you were able to be convinced, I doubt that anyone could convince you.

Why are you so hell bent on killing people? I understand that you are a LEO, but I don't think being a member of the thin blue line automatically makes one a proponent of capital punishment.

Being from Boston, and being named after a Saint, I infer that you are Catholic. How do you reconcile your Catholicism with your promotion of the capital punishment when there is no need to execute people in the US to preserve law and order.

Of course if you are not Catholic there may be no need to reconcile your position with your faith.

 

Re: Re: death row prisoners

thanks

 

DNA and the death penalty

You are kidding with that statement, right?

How about we name the 140 that have been exonerated in the pass two years due to DNA testing? 27 in Florida alone.

I use to support the death penalty. Now, with the numbers that are being proven innocent, I have to back life without parole. At least that way, with the advanced in technology, we might prevent an innocent person from dying at "our" hands.

 

Re: DNA and the death penalty

No, I'm not.

Please name one person who has been wrongfully put to death in the United States.

Hint: You can't do it.

 

The same standard in a criminal trial; Beyond a reasonable doubt.

 

That's your opinion. My opinion is that you're dead wrong.

I have no idea what that is supposed to mean. I work every day, and I am most not independently wealthy.

I'm not "hell bent on killing people". I'm simply for seeing justice for the victims of violent crime. I am sick & tired of seeing violent criminals being given chance after chance, and wreaking havoc on law-abiding citizens. I'm also sick of seeing "life sentences". How many murderers do you know that have died of old age while in prison?

Nice try. I'm a Protestant.