Critical Race Theory - Much Ado About Nothing?

Discussion in 'Political Discussions' started by Charles Fout, Aug 27, 2021.

  1. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    CRT is in action and there are good reasons to oppose it.
    That doesn't mean that there aren't people who will use it on both sides for monetary and political gain.
    If there are few bad cops its not making all cups bad.
    The issue can be abused by all sides.
    Honest discussion and education on the CRT is needed.
    Vonnegut likes this.
  2. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Oh, you'll have to explain that. What possible connection is there between those theories?
  3. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Oh I doubt he can explain it. I doubt the far right pundit Christopher F. Rufo that wrote that junk could explain it very well. I assume he used that more as a trigger to get the fear mongering juices flowing.

    Okay, I'll bite.

    How is real critical race theory an action and how is it being abused by the left?
  4. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Despite good intentions, there are abuses done in its name. What most critics of CRT want is for those abuses to stop.
    Abusive practices in the name of racial progressivism are happening at every educational level.
    Example: Penn State Professor approached a random white student.
    If I match him up with a black guy in class, or a brown guy... who's just like him, has the same GPA, looks like him, walks like him, talks like him, acts in a similar way...and we send them into the same jobs...Russell has a benefit of having white skin."

    It is completely inappropriate to single a student out this way without their consent. Imagine a professor in a health class doing this to an overweight student. The same professor brought a different student to the front of the class and asked him to tell the class how his white privilege made him feel.
    Students are fearful of pushing back against abusive practices done in the name of racial justice.

    A report was published stating the following:
    Critical race theory in the federal government.
    The FBI was holding workshops on intersectionality theory.
    The Department of Homeland Security was telling white employees that they were committing “microinequities” and had been “socialized into oppressor roles.”
    The Treasury Department held a training session telling staff members that “virtually all white people contribute to racism” and that they must convert “everyone in the federal government” to the ideology of “antiracism.” And the Sandia National Laboratories, which designs America’s nuclear arsenal, sent white male executives to a three-day reeducation camp, where they were told that “white male culture” was analogous to the “KKK,” “white supremacists,” and “mass killings.” The executives were then forced to renounce their “white male privilege” and to write letters of apology to fictitious women and people of color.
    In Education:

    "In Cupertino, California, an elementary school forced first-graders to deconstruct their racial and sexual identities and rank themselves according to their “power and privilege.” In Springfield, Missouri, a middle school forced teachers to locate themselves on an “oppression matrix,” based on the idea that straight, white, English-speaking, Christian males are members of the oppressor class and must atone for their privilege and “covert white supremacy.” In Philadelphia, an elementary school forced fifth-graders to celebrate “Black communism” and simulate a Black Power rally to free 1960s radical Angela Davis from prison, where she had once been held on charges of murder. And in Seattle, the school district told white teachers that they are guilty of “spirit murder” against black children and must “bankrupt [their] privilege in acknowledgement of [their] thieved inheritance.”"
    The journalist who reported this developed a database of more than 1,000 of these stories.

    No longer simply an academic matter, critical race theory has become a tool of political power. To borrow a phrase from the Marxist theoretician Antonio Gramsci, it is fast achieving cultural hegemony in America’s public institutions. It is driving the vast machinery of the state and society.
    CRT is built on the intellectual framework of identity-based Marxism.
  5. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Exactly the type nonsense that I expected. For example, your claim that CRT is taught in K-12 levels, CRT is not something that is really taught at the K-12 level. I believe that those are not examples of left abuse in the name of CRT. I believe that those are lies being told by the right to fear monger about CRT. The accuracy rating for Twitter quotes like that is worse than Very Low. It is in the Bullshit category at best. Reread the article that I linked to describes what CRT actually is.
  6. SteveFoerster

    SteveFoerster Resident Gadfly Staff Member

    Normally I'm the one with the most extreme position in one direction or another, but on this one I weirdly feel like I'm in the "sensible center" for a change. Here goes:

    No, K-12 schools do not "teach CRT". But they are increasingly adopting curricular changes and adding activities that are informed by CRT. Not everything Lerner is saying here is nonsense, especially when he also offered several accounts of questionable curricula reported by City Journal, which, while on the right, does rate as Mostly Factual. The antiracists really do have some far out collectivist beliefs, and some of their leading figures really do make an awful lot of money selling specious solutions to school administrators who are eager to look progressive.

    At the same time, however, yes, there are also plenty of grifters on the right who are exaggerating what's happening in schools in order to fundraise from excitable social conservatives. And yes, one of the reasons this grift is so lucrative is that plenty of their marks just don't want to acknowledge the racism, sexism, and homophobia that have permeated American history, especially when it means admitting that these oppressive forms of collectivism are still present today.
    Bill Huffman and Vonnegut like this.
  7. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member

    Exactly the type of reply I expected.
    Democrats are downplaying the significance of CRT. Dem's deny there are any abuses, and, when confronted with evidence of abuse, they write it off.
    It appears that CRT practitioners maintain that racism is everywhere, that it is permanent and ineradicable, and that race must become the supreme consideration in all government decisions and policies.
    The devil in this narrative is white supremacy. When racism is described as universal, eternal and all-powerful, the struggle for justice is divisive and alleges that white Americans are cursed to be oppressors forever.
    CRT is applied in all levels of the education system, including K12, I have a few teachers in my family who are Democrats, when we discuss such issues its verbally brutal especially with the younger ones.
    History appears as it been transformed in to a confused quarrel over what it means to be an American.
    It is suggestive that the generation most eager to adopt CRT’s articles of faith (“zoomers,” or people roughly 25 and younger) suffers from anxiety, depression and suicide.
    I think there is nothing wrong with efforts to more widely acknowledge the racial injustices.

    The Texas legislature banned the teaching of CRT in public schools. Florida did the same and added a mandate to teach the history of communism.
    Laws to restrict CRT are passed on the state level by Republican majorities.
    Here is an opinion of Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge:
    August 16, 2021
    Arkansas Attorney General Leslie Rutledge released an official opinion today on the dangers of promoting Critical Race Theory (CRT) in Arkansas schools.
    CRT is a neo-Marxist ideology that distorts and rewrites history, classifies people based on race, and teaches children to judge people based on skin color and sex.

    “Teaching Critical Race Theory and similar discriminatory ideologies violates Title VI, the Equal Protection Clause, and Article II of the Arkansas Constitution,” said Attorney General Rutledge. “The classroom isn’t a place to promote extremist political ideologies and preach discrimination. When schools allow the classification of children based on race, they violate both state and federal law.”
  8. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    This is true and is why I said, "How is real critical race theory an action and how is it being abused by the left?"
    Rich Douglas and SteveFoerster like this.
  9. If the left is successful in making people aware of the inherent privilege and true history of race , young white folks may become more aware and allied in truly creating a society where POC get equal opportunity. That means more competition and racists aside, that challenges the status quo.
    Bill Huffman and Rich Douglas like this.
  10. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Passing laws by states does not prove that it is not mainly fear mongering nonsense. For example, remember all the fear mongering done on the right a few years ago about how families and marriage was going to be destroyed if same sex marriage was allowed? The SCOTUS ruled same-sex marriage legal in 2015. Marriage and families have not been destroyed in America.

    Now here is a clue as to how one can tell that this CRT debate going on is primarily just fear mongering on the right. Look at the media sources rated by that are rated "Mostly Factual" or higher. Steve would say "High" or better but I'm willing to live a bit more dangerously. :) This CRT debate is almost non-existent. They are not really talking about it. If one looks at the media sources rated "Mixed" or below there are two dramatically different pictures. If the source is left biased then the coverage is mostly about how ridiculous the right is behaving on CRT. If the source is one of the media sources that you like to watch then it is the stuff that you posted.

    What does mixed accuracy mean? It means that it is not all true. There is some true, some incomplete, and false stuff being reported all mixed together.
  11. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Yes, I agree with that ideally being a long term outcome of accepting the reality of our history but I knew that Lerner would not say that. :) However I'd say it is fair to not really consider an accurate description of our history to not be an "action".

    My favorite post in this thread was sanantone's exchange in response to Lerner's backward assertion that CRT wanted to make rights unequal in the USA. CRT simply says that our history is a history of unequal rights. For example, a black man is worth 3/5 of a white man according to the constitution, in the great compromise of 1787. "Well you can't count all those slaves as people. They are kind of people, how about 3/4 of a person each? No, their skin is very black only 1/2 of a person. They are more than half a person, how about 2/3 of a person? Let's compromise at 3/5 of a person." (Note: I'm not claiming that is way the compromise discussion actually went. I'm just trying to demonstrate how poorly blacks were thought of back in those days.)
    Last edited: Aug 29, 2021
    chris richardson likes this.
  12. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    If you see CRT everywhere it doesn't exist, what you are seeing instead is institutionalized racism, the very thing CRT is designed to examine.

    CRT has been around for decades, but we're only now just hearing about it. If it is so deadly a thought--a theory!--then where is all the destruction it has caused over those decades?

    Bogeyman, nothing more.
    Bill Huffman likes this.
  13. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    It's not what you are talking about but I have an example of destruction being done by CRT. Not by decades old CRT but by the CRT as defined by the right. There have been laws passed in 8 states that limits discussion of race in K-12.

    The article I pointed to earlier was printed last May and at that time it was 4 states. Now it is 8 states. Here's a short article about what the right is doing.

    Why are states banning critical race theory?

    It starts:
    Fox News has mentioned “critical race theory” 1,300 times in less than four months. Why? Because critical race theory (CRT) has become a new boogie man for people unwilling to acknowledge our country’s racist history and how it impacts the present.
  14. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    Bogeyman: Fictional character or thing trumped up to scare immature and ignorant people.

    Boogieman: As in, "I'm Your Boogie Man," a #1 hit written by Harry Casey and Richard Finch. Casey is, of course the "KC" in "KC and the Sunshine Band."

    Now, pardon me as I Get Down Tonight, because That's the Way I Like It (Uh-huh) when you (Shake, Shake, Shake) Shake Your Booty. I'm Your Boogie Man and I Keep it Coming Love while wearing my Boogie Shoes. So, Please Don't Go because Yes, I'm Ready (with Ter DeSario).
  15. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    Very interesting, I was taken aback at the spelling of bogeyman in the Brookings Institute article. So here's my research. In defense of Brookings Institute they are rated High in accuracy by I searched on Google and found Wikipedia. (Which is rated Mixed accuracy on primarily because the author's are unnamed.) Wikipedia gives both spellings as okay for the meaning

    The Bogeyman (/ˈbəʊɡimæn, ˈboʊɡi-/;[1] also spelled boogeyman, bogyman, bogieman, boogie monster, boogie man, or boogie woogie) is a type of mythical creature used by adults to frighten children into good behavior.

    I also note that Wikipedia defines Boogie.

    Boogie is a repetitive, swung note or shuffle rhythm,[2] "groove" or pattern used in blues which was originally played on the piano in boogie-woogie music.

    The question is should I revive my account on Wikipedia and try to supplement the definition of Bogeyman to include this case?

    The Bogeyman (/ˈbəʊɡimæn, ˈboʊɡi-/;[1] also spelled boogeyman, bogyman, bogieman, boogie monster, boogie man, or boogie woogie) is a type of mythical creature used by adults to frighten children into good behavior or by right wing media to scare the right wing base into doing their silly bidding.
  16. Rich Douglas

    Rich Douglas Well-Known Member

    I just wanted to have fun with some KC and the Sunshine Band references.

    Where I grew up, to boogie also meant to depart. "Let's boogie" meant "let's go."
    Vonnegut likes this.
  17. Bill Huffman

    Bill Huffman Well-Known Member

    I understand. I meant my post in the same vein.
  18. Lerner

    Lerner Well-Known Member


    Its good that GOP is not talking much about it, actions speak louder then words.
    They are taking action until CRT abuses stop.
  19. Vonnegut

    Vonnegut Well-Known Member

    Have to just emphasize Steve’s earlier comments…. CRT is certainly being made into a boogie man… bogey man… argh… by the far right….

    While the far left is trying to be overly progressive and attempting to implement it wherever they can…

    Personally consider CRT to be a great optical alternative tool at the graduate level to view social-political development…

    …while also viewing it as a HORRENDOUS narrative to integrate into policy development, DEI advocacy, and integration or influence into K-12 education. I walked out of the last DEI training session that started to go down the CRT route.
    SteveFoerster likes this.
  20. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Oh cool, a political party that engages in clandestine action.
    What do you mean by "CRT abuses"? Examples you made is some undergraduates getting their feelings hurt; in other words, being snowflakes, thing they kept accusing the Left of up to basically now.

    BTW, how do you feel about reaping the benefits of systems built to benefit white men (a question CRT-bothered Con-men found so offensive)? Personally, I try not to "feel" much on the subject; these are lucky breaks on inherently hard immigrants' journey. But this does not mean the topic is not legitimate. One obvious example: a man with exactly the same credentials as me (a legal temporary worker with a job in the country and Master's or better), but from India, will wait a few decades longer to get his green card than I will. The current backlog in EB2 category (professionals with advanced degrees) can last 160 years; the wait will be shorter due to unused slots from other streams, but still: decades. Their children age out of dependent categories: a phenomenon called "documented Dreamers". Lucky break for me, but is it fair? CRT can easily be used to explain how immigration law was developed for explicitly racist motivations, but you don't need to dig this deep. Just know a bit of history. Also remember that you and I, my friend, can pass for "Whites" (a group shaped by US laws and policy; races have no "real" biological basis); don't presume you understand someone else's experience just from yours (this is one of tenets of CRT, btw. Can be derived by a bit of empathy and common sense, quite frankly).

    Opposite side of white privilege: crowds of people in my little white-dominated neighborhood who feel entitled not to wear masks or vaccinate. My child's 4th grade is basically an active hot spot, with NO efforts to really do anything real about it. Frustrating.
    chris richardson likes this.

Share This Page