Concordia University Ukraine

Discussion in 'Business and MBA degrees' started by Stanislav, Nov 28, 2020.

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  1. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    I thought it'd be fun to talk about this school. It's not a recommendation, YMMV.

    https://www.concordia.edu.ua/

    It lists in-person and online Bachelor's, Master's/MBA, as well as a PhD program in Economics. Total cost for Master's for international/online students is UAH100,000, which is about $3,500. PhD program is about $1500/semester over 4 years. It is described as hybrid, with exams on-campus and lectures online, but I have distinct impression that can be negotiable. Study in English.

    This is an interesting school, much-discussed here. It was established in 1997 as a branch of Wisconsin International University, which was a degree mill. However, it was largely ran by local academics, in particular Prof. Oleksandr Romanovskyi from public Dragomanov Pedagogical University (a teacher-training school in Kyiv; both my parents attended it). Prof. Romanovskyi got his school accredited; it's not any different, paperwork-wise, than any other private school in town. In addition, programs in Business Admin are accredited by FIBAA; as discussed here, this is a recognized accreditor in Germany. The school is big on international exchange and dual degrees; it looks like they now increasingly focus on international students. Most of their students are in "dual" degree programs and get eg. Bachelors in "Management" with Ukrainian accreditation and BBA blessed by FIBAA.
     
    Messdiener likes this.
  2. Mac Juli

    Mac Juli Well-Known Member

    Hello!


    Indeed an interesting thing. I liked the MiniMBA-program offering and thought about enrolling some years ago, but did not.


    Best regards,
    Mac Juli
     
  3. chrisjm18

    chrisjm18 Well-Known Member

    I wonder if it's affiliated with the Concordia University System in the U.S.
     
  4. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Seems so, Chris. Here's from the page:

    "In 2017, our longterm partner Concordia University Wisconsin / Ann Arbor (https://www.cuw.edu, https://www.cuaa.edu) became the official co-founder of the Ukrainian-American Concordia University. For us it is a great honor that our co-founder agreed to use the word-symbol Concordia in our new name! The meaning of the word Concordia – consensus, agreement, peace – is gaining more and more importance and weight in the historical development of the world, countries, society and individual."
     
    chrisjm18 likes this.
  5. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Prof. Romanovsky had visited Concordia University Wisconsin, and some kind of relationship do exist. ConcordiaUA states that CUW has became a "co-founder" in 2017. I'm not exactly sure what this means: the school was founded in 1997, as "Ukrainian-American Liberal Arts Institute - Wisconsin International University in Ukraine", and original co-foundfers were WIU-USA and I believe Dragomanov U. As I remember, WIU-USA (deceptive, never accredited) was actually founded by a CUW professor, so SOME kind of link always existed. ConcordiaUA also advertises dual degree programs with 5 different schools - CUW included.

    It's an interesting phenomenon - a branch of a degree mill that grew up to be a real school. It's not the only such case. There is a real university in Georgia that first opened as a branch of some fake school from Hawaii. Another case: there was another WIU in Eastern Europe - in Estonia. It got accredited, renamed itself (I believe also to "Concordia"), then ran into financial problems and merged with another accredited private school. Also, Preston U. Pakistan is apparently a real enough institution.

    In any case, there is a running obsession with finding cheap accredited schools in weird parts of the world on this forum. Well, ConcordiaUA is an option. MBA is fairly cheap (and I think it's actually MBA/MSM, the latter Ukraine-accredited). The PhD program is fairly new, but looks like a possibility for thrifty Doctorate-chasers. More expensive than Universidad Central Nicaragua, but still affordable - and unlike UCN taught out of the main campus.
     
    Johann, chrisjm18 and Mac Juli like this.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes. Two of its campuses are still accredited. It once had nine. Kohat and Karachi campuses are still accredited per Pakistan HEC. The others disappeared off the radar years ago.

    The founder of the Preston Empire in Pakistan is Abdul Basit. Prior to Preston, he was once V.P. of WAUC, (World Association of Universities and Colleges), an unrecognized accrediting org. owned by the late Dr. Maxine Asher, who once claimed to have discovered the lost continent of Atlantis off the coast of Spain, and wrote some books about the ancient civilization that was supposed to be there. A very colorful lady. Her own degrees were real - her University, her Accrediting Organization and her fantasies - something else.

    Getting back to Preston. This U. was active in America - unaccredited and therefore forced to move from Wyoming, it obtained an Alabama licence. For a while, some campuses in Pakistan were conferring "fine American degrees" from the Alabama school on their graduates. There were many tales of woe from grads in Pakistan who found their Preston degrees to be "un-useful" as a couple of them put it. Anyway - the two Pakistan campuses remain - the American one is history. Finally dies in LA about 2012. Story here:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Preston_University_(United_States)
    https://www.hec.gov.pk/english/universities/pages/recognised.aspx#k=#s=121
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I should have said "finally 'lived and died in LA' - 2015. RIP Preston, USA.

    Andy Warhol was right - except that you're only famous on DI for 10 minutes. Timer again....
     
  8. Johann766

    Johann766 Member

    Interesting :)
    PhD would be 3000 $ * 4 = 12.000 $
    The INTERNATIONAL UNIVERSITY OF BUSINESS AND LAW
    http://iubl.edu.ua/
    is cheaper from what I know though and they offer distance education too, however not 100 percent Online as far as I know.
     
  9. Dustin

    Dustin Well-Known Member

    The Canadian Concordia University was founded in 1974. The American Concordia University System was founded in 1992 (but its constituent universities are older than that), and now Concordia Ukraine (renamed to its current name in 2017) but I wonder which was the oldest university to use the Concordia name.
     
  10. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    According to Rev. Dr. Wiki, all the Concordia Uni's are here, Dustin. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concordia_University_(disambiguation)
    All the ones I checked seem to be relatively modern. I was hoping for a Euro one centuries old, but I didn't find one. The "bad" Concordia (degree mill) - I think it's now gone - is probably one of the older ones on the list. I'm surprised.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
    Dustin likes this.
  11. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    This is a properly-accredited School. However, Stanislav, our acknowledged expert on all things Ukrainian, especially Higher Ed., warns of some irregularities in Doctorates offered by this school - some awarded in conjunction with Universidad Central de Nicaragua. It's here: https://www.degreeinfo.com/index.php?threads/universidad-central-de-nicaragua-again.44420/page-4#post-449220
     
  12. eriehiker

    eriehiker Active Member

    It is so funny. I live in Michigan about 45 minutes from the Concordia in Ann Arbor and I will be moving my family to Wisconsin in 1.5 years to within an hour or so of the Concordia in Mequon. And I teach HS economics and have a grad. cert in economics education. Maybe this is the universe telling me to get a doctorate in economics from this place. Of course, getting the universe and my wife to agree on this would take some doing.
     
    innen_oda likes this.
  13. Johann766

    Johann766 Member

    Thanks for the reference to Stans post.

    I've contacted IUBL a while ago, however I can't find the email anymore. From what I remember they told me that they offer the official state-recognized PhD and besides that they offer some kind of "propio" PhD degree. The propio PhD degree was open to (mostly, not 100 percent) distance learning, so that's the one I considered.
     
  14. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Propio is a Spanish term for a degree which is legal, recognised in its country of origin and which a properly-accredited University is allowed to teach, although the individual program does not (or not yet) have the full approval of the authorities. The degree is suitable for most purposes, with a couple of restrictions -e.g. Government jobs, in its own country. Its value and/or equivalence outside its own country might vary.

    I had no idea that Ukraine had adopted the propio concept. Perhaps they have seen the amazingly enthusiastic reception to the Groupon degrees on DI. Perhaps it was there all along. Maybe they picked up the propio idea from their dealings with Universidad Central de Nicaragua. Actually, I think this may be the irregularity Stanislav reported. Let's ask him if this kind of degree is OK (legal and valid) in Ukraine. Then, if it is, maybe you can ask authorities in your country - Germany, if it's OK there.

    We went through a thing sort of like this with DBA degrees from an otherwise good school in Poland. There is no such degree in Poland. It is not a degree recognized by Polish Higher Education authorities, yet the school was offering them - strictly to foreigners. Maybe we have something similar here, with these non-State degrees.

    @Stanislav Help! I'm out of my league again and it's cold here in Kherson. :) Can you help us out?
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Another thing - I've yet to see a propio doctorate from a Spanish-speaking University. I don't believe a master propio will get a person into doctoral study in Spain either. IIRC that's one of the few restrictions. Have you seen any propio doctorates, Johann766? I haven't. I've seen some worthless, bogus doctorates from Costa Rica, though.
     
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
  16. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I think in Ukraine it might be "If it don't have the znak (mark) - send it back!" :)
     
  17. Johann766

    Johann766 Member

    http://maup.com.ua/eng/navchannya-u-maup/pidgotovka-naukovih-kadriv/doktorantura-phd.html

    If you look at the study programm information of MAUP you'll see one section for "Doctoral PhD" and one for "Doctoral". I think that somewhere on degreeinfo I read that the difference is that one is state-recognized and the other is "propio".

    If that is true the Ukraine somehow seems to have the propio concept too, and I suppose they've had it even before the Groupon Hype.

    Unfortunately I have not found a "propio" PhD program from the European Union. Actually that would be exactly what I'm looking for :D
    A regular PhD program besides my regular daytime Job is be too much effort and stress for me. I've made that expercience as a PhD student at a German state University, which I decided to quit.
    A Propio PhD should be more flexible and hopefully a little less exhausting and hopefully 100 percent online. And cheap.

    I'm aware of the Costa Rica propio PhD you've mentioned, which is a little too little reputable.
    The Polish DBA is not a real doctorate. If it wasn't that expensive I might still do it but they charge more than 10000 Euros now.
    I've found a 1500 Euro online DBA program on emagister from a Mexican school which I might consider. If the program wouldn't be in spanish.
    The Swiss OUS Academy offering is controversial too.

    So I'm still waiting for a school from Europe to come up with a propio PhD program:D
    ENEB currently has no intention of offering a DBA, I asked.
     
  18. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Yeah, this exists. And it's largely bunk. As far as Ukraine go, just stick with the official degree.
    MAUP is a good example. It's the largest private school in the country (was even larger before MoE closed some of it's many branch campuses). Yet I rarely heard about their unofficial doctorate program; my guess is it's contained in the insulated world of collectors of worthless honors. By the way, if you consider this program, your fellow PhD alum will be Dr. David Duke (yes, the KKK Grand Wizard "and National Director"). There's no clarity on the kind of his degree, but I'm fairly sure it's a "propio" (because why would a school specializing in "Personnel Management" have a scientific council in History?). MAUP is known for spreading anti-Semitism maybe even more than for their low-stress (and accredited) degree programs for working professionals.

    There are a few business schools awarding DBA; just like in Poland, this is not an official Doctorate. One school even has AMBA accreditation, and presumably fairly decent. I don't think it is a coincidence that the two biggest names (Kyiv School of Economics and Lviv Business School) are not in the DBA business. KSE is affiliated with Kyiv Mohyla Academy (public, highly regarded school), and LBS is at Ukrainian Catholic University. KSE's Master's graduates are IIRC 8 out of 10 Forbes Top Ukrainian Economists. Two of my classmates at Kyiv Poly did that Master's. Both have PhDs now; one from UBC in Computer Science, now at Google. The other is Prof. Andriy Norets at Brown University (he's one of the "top 10"), he does brilliant work applying his Applied Math background to Economics. His PhD is from University of Iowa.

    One guy I mentioned here who has a couple of these degrees is Bishop Viktor Bed', founding Rector of Avgustyn Voloshyn Carpathian University (and Uzhgorod Theological Academy). He later "covered" these titles with accredited doctorates.

    There's the whole business with private Academies selling official-looking titles; very big in Russia. One such thing was closed by the government (despite the fact that their bigwigs were really connected to intelligence services) - Academy of Security and Law Enforcement, ABOP. These guys sold their own titles, degrees, medals, and officer ranks, issued IDs superficially similar to police, and even had their own uniforms.

    In Ukrainian job market, these things are practically worthless. Most rich people craving a Doctorate prefer to have their thesis ghostwritten and bribing someone to get a real degree.
     
    Johann likes this.
  19. Stanislav

    Stanislav Well-Known Member

    Correction: KSE is not a part of NaUKMA. It's a stand-alone institution now. It was founded at NaUKMA as the Economic Education and Research Consortium in 1996, with European grants. It's flagship programs offer joint degrees with University of Houston.
     
  20. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Wow! Super-informative post, Stanislav. Thanks for straightening this out. And of course, I won't be joining David Duke as a MAUPA alumnus. Maupa = Monkey, for those 2 or 3 Non-Ukrainians on the board.

    ...I see the bus coming. Better get out of Kherson now. I'm not too popular around here. :eek:

    дуже дякую (Thanks very much.)
     

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