Central University of Nicaragua Degree Scheme

Discussion in 'Accreditation Discussions (RA, DETC, state approva' started by Rich Douglas, Nov 21, 2021.

  1. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Like the MDs from OIUCM? There were few that would advertise with these degrees as MDs and cause harm. There were other Indian schools that were selling MDs. I think few were shut down recently for selling MDs and some people using them to practice regular medicine.
  2. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - that's always been a problem in India, due to number of sick people, especially in poor, rural areas, being way in excess of the patient capacity of the doctors available - plus many people too poor to seek qualified attention - or to buy medicine. I've read (reliable sources) of children going permanently blind from eye infections - all for want of $8 worth of ointment that their impoverished parents could not afford.

    I believe there was a legal "country doctor" designation intended for somewhat-trained people to be um - paraprofessionals, I guess, to serve in rural areas - for considerably less than a fully qualified doctor would make. I think IBAM was one of the schools that legally participated in teaching and qualifying these "country doctors" as I call them. (I can't remember the exact term used - it was something like that - and definitely a doctoral designation.) I think at some point the whole idea went off the rails. IBAM developed a very, very bad reputation as a mill - and I think it still has it.

    In a lot of India, I think things are as bad as they were say, 2,500 years ago, in respect to poverty, child labour etc. I'm told half the school-age children in India do not attend school - mostly because they have to work to help support their families. India is a country of huge cities, where impoverished people from the countryside flock in search of jobs - any jobs, from the 750,000 (!) villages and hard-scrabble few-acre farms. These migrants to the cities are often disappointed. Still a lot of extreme poverty - and debt-slaves to the wealthy - but a growing middle class - well over 200 million, now. Contrasts - and a never-ending series of corrupt governments. Give it another 2,500 years, I guess. :(
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
  3. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Notes on being "middle class" in India. Back in 2004-2005, 14% of the population was "middle class." Today it's 31%

    From "Business Standard":

    "The report released by PRICE added that the share of middle class in the total population rose from 14 per cent in 2004-05 to 31 per cent in 2021-22. One in every three Indians is "middle class" in India with income between Rs 5 lakh and Rs 30 lakh per annum."

    That's 500,000 rupees to 3,000,000 rupees annually - in US terms, $6,040 to $36, 245. Obviously $6K goes a lot further in India than it does here. So does $36K. Nice if you can get it -- but many millions in the cities can't - and pretty well nobody can expect that (except the village headman and the major landlords, possibly) in the rural areas.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
  4. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    IBAM was shut down few years ago. The allegation is that they were granting MDs and some people were practicing medicine with them. It was the equivalent of a natural medicine correspondence school. The problem was the abuse, they were granting PhD, MDs and other higher degrees.
    In Canada, we have many similar correspondence or online schools that teach natural medicine but they are just diplomas or certificates. The issue here was not so much that the school was bad but abuse of their license to teach natural medicine by granting MDs, PhD and other higher degrees.
    However, in Canada, there are quite few natural medicine schools in Ontario and Quebec that grant bogus doctoral credentials. I recall Doctor of Natural Medicine and Doctor of Integrative Medicine just to mention a few but they are worded carefully so they don't get sue by medical colleges.
    In Quebec, few people run Doctor of Metaphysics degrees too. The government is not going to go after people giving degrees in Metaphysics but the Natural Medicine degrees can be used to perform harm too if used in an malicious way.
    Below the bogus school in Toronto that grants the Doctor of Natural Medicine, so it is not just India that grants bogus degrees in fields like Reiki healing and Astrology Medicine:
  5. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Do not confuse the bogus natural medicine board with the Canadian Association of Naturopathic doctors. These doctors have to take 4 year degrees (not distance) and have the legal right in some provinces to diagnose deceases and prescribe medication that is natural based like anti biotics. They can perform surgeries too.


    There is nothing wrong with taking a natural medicine certificate and advice people about healthy eating and excercise. The problem here is abuse by using a Doctor title that makes people believe that they are dealing with a real doctor and might fall for a wrong diagnosis that has no accountability.
  6. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Thanks for the info. The link seems to be a certification mill - a bogus Board, rather than a school. They don't teach - they just certify someone who paid the requisite fee and claims to have the study hours, degrees etc. Just as bad. I used to think this was a US thing - but I've seen other bogus "Boards" in Canada too. We're not exactly squeaky clean here, on this front, are we?

    I said "They don't teach - they just certify." I really don't know which is worse.
  7. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Not on me, they won't! :eek:
    OK - got it.
  8. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    I remember an Indian poster (not sure which forum) who recounted the following experience, in India. At the time, he said, IBAM was granting "Doctor" diplomas - not with MD, but some other credential, that was supposed to (IBAM said) "legally" allow recipients to perform some kinds of limited medical services in rural areas.

    His elderly mother had always wanted him to be a Medical Doctor - but the son had neither the desire nor, he thought, the aptitude for a medical career. He was doing quite OK for himself in business. However, he studied for one of these IBAM awards and was able to show his mother the "Doctor" diploma, not long before she died. He got this diploma for the one sole reason of his mother's wish. He had no intention of practicing whatever medical services it "allowed" - and he added that he never did.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
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  9. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    They seem connected with Quantum University that is owned by a Canadian, they are probably own by the same person. He makes money teaching and then certifying:


    Very smart business, they repackage energy healing that basically works because it promotes relaxation based on the studies that I read. It has positive results to help people to relax but the same idea with massage therapy. The body heals when it relaxes but the same can be achieved by taking a vacation in Florida or Mexico and it is more fun than taking quantum medicine.

    The idea is to take some product like energy healing and the repackage it with a fancy name like quantum medicine. The create your own certification board so people believe that they are becoming real doctors.

    Very smart but malicious, the man running the show is just profiting from the system and the need of some people to become doctors and get some kind of bogus certification.

    The reality is that you can get the same training by watching youtube videos and because the field of energy healing is non regulated, you can just practice it with no board certification.

    it is just a clever scam.
  10. mintaru

    mintaru Active Member

    It seems título-propio-like degrees are spreading.

    I just happened to find an example from a country that didn't have such degrees until now: Switzerland.

    So far there have been federally accredited universities in Switzerland and others with cantonal recognition. The latter type of school is unaccredited but legal.

    One of the schools that previously only had cantonal recognition is the Swiss Business School. https://www.sbs.edu

    In 2021, however, SBS was accredited by the Swiss Accreditation Council as a university of applied sciences institute. ( A university of applied sciences institute is basically a small university of applied sciences that only offers degrees in one or very few different majors. )

    Just like a university of applied sciences, a university of applied sciences institute may award bachelor’s and master’s degrees, but no doctoral degrees. Nevertheless, Swiss Business School offers a DBA, apparently based on the cantonal recognition that the school still has.

    So the SBS DBA is an unaccredited doctoral degree from an accredited university, just like a título propio. So far, however, it seems to be the first and only one of its kind in Switzerland.
  11. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    That gentleman is on the other board. Seems to mean well, but that's the second time he's jumped into a bogus and/or questionable Doctoral degree program. The two "schools" mentioned above are run by the same notorious junk dealers.

    I find it funny that both offer "Ethereal Doctorates" in Grief Counseling, but BSU's is $3500, while ATU's is $7350. Both programs are exactly the same except for one course which may only be different by title rather than content.



    What really gets me is that Breyer State doesn't even respect us enough to get fake accreditation, or misrepresented accreditation from ASIC like they have on their American Theism University site, lol.
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  12. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    It won't be the last. 99% of Cantonally-licensed schools = anything for a buck. Looks like formerly Cantonal schools are the same.
    The usual Cantonal dodge has been to go into partnership with a school in Mexicostaragua or maybe Poland, and award dual or triple "Doctoral" degrees.

    "Somebody in the mix has to be accredited, right?" :(

    The method is new, here. The dodge is the same. If I were a Swiss Authority I'd have yanked their University-whatever status. I don't think "propio" is the term for these, or any, Doctorates. Even in traditional "propio" countries, unapproved Doctorates are "streng verboten" - excuse me, I meant "estrictamente prohibidos." Bachelor's and Master's? Yeah, whatever.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
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  13. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Maybe they'll re-open their own self-accreditation mill of years past, "The Middle States Consortium." :)
    And why should they "respect us enough?" Who among us respects THEM? :)
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
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  14. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Titulo propio degrees were meant to be just continuing education. A university needs to give a course is something totally new for a short period of time (Lets say deep learning) so it does not make sense to go to the hassle to get official approval that might take years to get.
    But just like religious degrees that we meant to train clergy and give religious awards like Masters of Ministry, there is abuse.

    There is a market for these degrees. The most obvious is the adjunct industry. When I worked as an adjunct, I witnessed many people with non accredited doctorates, the bottom line is that the adjunct got the job because the accredited masters but the unaccredited doctorate is just a marketing booster in a CV so the person stands out from the crowd when applying for a job. The person with a DBA from SBS might get the job over another person that just has an MBA from a local school. The hiring of part time faculty is many times not very strict and just based on a CV, the hiring committee does not have time to check the credentials very closely, they might just look on the internet and see that SBS is a real school so good enough to get the adjunct job. They wont go into technicalities of propio versus official degree.

    However, there are limits. If a person shows up with an Ethereal Accelerate DBA from the Breyer State Theology University, no matter how light the hiring is done, the person would pass as a joker and the CV tossed out to the next garbage can available.
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2022
  15. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Yes - "Quantum University" has been debunked here before. Shame on him. Sorry to hear he's Canadian.
  16. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    They are using marketing. Laureaute education does the same thing. They design a program and sell it with different prices depending on the prestige of the school that offers it but it is the same program. The same DBA offered by Walden might be offered at half of a price by some other school owned by Laureate in Latin American.

    As Breyer State has a terrible reputation, they figure that the new school might perceived as superior so they sell it for a higher price.

    They are also very clever, Counselling in general is licensed but they chose a tiny market that is Grief Counselling that is not regulated so they avoid legal problems. Grief counselling can be learned with a certificate but the point is that the person holding the doctorate passes as as psychologist as the degree is a Doctor of Psychology but to cover their butts they just say is grief counselling.

    Very malicious operation.
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  17. Johann

    Johann Well-Known Member

    Indeed these other guys are malicious. I don't think Laureate would touch either school. They stick to recognized, properly- credentialed schools. And yeah, they're skilled marketers - they know how to price a product for maximum total return. But these others - like you said, definitely malicious.
  18. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    The owner also claims to be an MD but never says from where. It can be an IBAM MD or similar school.
    Many people got MDs from Indian schools in Alternative Medicine to deceive people. For this reason the Indian Government shut them down. For the regular person, if you have an MD in your business card, it is hard to tell that is in Quantum Medicine, Astrology Medicine or any other non scientific based medicine. On top of that, you become a board certified in Integrative Medicine, what is integrative medicine? For the average person, this might be a real medicine and fall for the scam artist.
    Very malicious operation as well.
  19. LearningAddict

    LearningAddict Well-Known Member

    I can believe that. Shame they're no good at it, because I doubt it's really known to nearly everyone who would visit the two sites that both are run by the same people. They even split them up into two different states.

    In the Walden example though, the price difference with Latin America is likely a reflection of the economic difference between that area and the United States moreso than a marketing scheme. Generally speaking, the cost of a degree in the United States versus, well, almost anywhere else is pretty large. You can find schools in some places charging $29/credit. Same program in the United States can = $1200/credit. It's insanity.
  20. RFValve

    RFValve Well-Known Member

    Yes but it is extra income. The DBA is already making money in the US, just sell it in Latin America from one quarter of the price but now branded as Latin University. Education is business, people think they are getting a better product because it is American but few know Laureate actually outsources their course design to places like China. At the end, the course that you take is designed by someone China as most likely with no doctorate. Walden then pays a tiny salary to a PhD just get the seal of a doctor in the course being taught but the professor takes the tiny salary because the course is already prepackage so there is not much to do other than baby sitting the web site and grading papers.

    I worked too long in education to figure out that even accredited universities are not very ethical sometimes.

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