Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by euphoric, Mar 26, 2007.
How do people view your CCU degree as?
(seeing how the school is not RA in international countries)?
i meant because the school is not RA how do people view your degree as?
In Canada pretty much as a Mickey Mouse degree. May be useful in some situations where the employee candidate already has the experience but not so useful if used for graduate school or fresh graduates.
The NA vs. RA debate is not an issue in Canada (like it is on this board). CCU's accreditor (the DETC) is recognized by the US Dept of Education and the school is a member of CHEA. A CCU degree would, in most cases, be viewed like any other online or distance-learning degree. In fact, if do a search you'll find people working in gov't and private industry within Canada's borders. If you do a further search, you'll find nationally accredited degree holders working in various positions around the world. We live in a global economy so when you think about a CCU degree...try not to get too wrapped-up in the NA v. RA debate. There are enough CCU grads on this board who can attest to the fact that their CCU has benefited them. So, I certainly don't subscribe to the above-poster's notion that it would be viewed as a "mickey mouse degree."
Good luck in your search.
As I said, if you are already an accomplished professional it wouldn't hurt to include an MBA from CCU. But in an already saturated market of MBAs where graduates of schools like UoT and McGill are getting a hard time to get jobs, I would think that your CCU degree would be "Mickey mouse" for most of the prospect employers if compared with local schools.
You will be kidding yourself if an open book multiple choice examination degree could really compete with those schools with GMATs of 600, 2 years experience and 2 years of full time study.
I would also challenge any CCU graduate to get admission at graduate schools in Canada. Not impossible but I would expect a lot of rejections.
Yes, no question that many government employees or professionals have completed CCU degrees. The question is, were they offered jobs because of the CCU degree? Were they given salary increases because of it?
I concur with RFValve. I would think twice about a program that leads you to have to ask questions like tha one.
How can you be so sure that having a degree from CCU did not get them a salary increase ?
Interestingly, there is almost no debate about the facts. There are available facts, and three kinds of people. Those who accept them, those who recognize them but go for it (a degree from an NA school), and those who deny them. I like the first two categories. The third group is the one that stirs up all the discussion.
That said, it is an important issue (acceptability of NA degrees in non-U.S. environments), just as it is here. That it has to be asked at all should tell you something.
Of course, I'm not sure and that is why I ask the question. I work in the education sector and degrees normally put you in a higher scale based on the credits you get per degree. A foreign degree needs to be evaluated by the minister of education and the evaluation is not done based on RA or DETC, they actually check the school and the program and they classify the school in their databases. They base their assessment by a number of things as libraries, faculty, academic rigor, program, etc. My bet is that if a CCU degree is evaluated, it would be questioned due to their policies of multiple choice open book exams and their "flexibility" to allow student to retake exams to "increase" their GPAs. My bet that their assessment would come as "not equivalent to a Canadian degree" but I guess this depends on each province and a great degree of subjectivity.
Nothing against DETC schools, I'm sure that there are many DETC schools with rigor and high standards but CCU is far from being one.
Are you aware of any CCU grads that were turned away from Canadian grad schools or employers? I haven't come across any. But...hey...then again...they could exist. I just haven't met any.
Post-secondary institutions such as U-Vic, UBC, Dalhousie, Queens, McGill and the like would certainly scrutinize all DL or online degree programs - including those from RA schools. In fact, you won't typically find faculty with DL credentials (RA or otherwise) teaching at any of these schools. The same thing can be said for the American Ivy League schools - no RA DL degree holders teaching at any of those schools (at least none that I'm aware of). When it comes to admissions, each school is going to have its own set of criteria or guidelines. If a CCU grad is rejected there are always avenues of appeal or redress. There is also "provisional" acceptance at some schools if an applicant appears doesn't meet their guidelines. Lastly, many progressive organizations in Canada (gov't and private industry) hire NA degree holders. My company happens to be one of them.
You make a lot of assumptions. CCU standards, coursework, etc. have been reviewed and approved by DETC, which is recognized by USDOE and CHEA. If the coursework was suspect, an employer would assume the school would not receive accreditation.
As far as the rigor of CCU, have you been a student there? The issue of open book exams have been discussed here to exhaustion. Open book does not mean easy, plain and simple. In addition to the multiple choice exams, there are essays as well. Let me assure you, the writing must be thoughtful, and must thoroughly answer the questions asked. I had two essays returned with nasty notes from my professor. I quickly learned there are no short cuts. As far as a few individuals completing courses quickly, they usually are experts in the field they are studying, and the coursework is easy for them. That wasn't the case for me.
Just my two centavos!!
Well...there's actually a 4th group of people you might want to add to your list: those holding NA degrees outside the borders of the US in places where the RA vs. NA debate doesn't exist. Your "issues" are not necessarily the issues of others in foreign jurisdictions.
The schools you mentioned are able to distinguish between CCU and the like from other big name state schools (i.e. Indiana, ASU, Nebraska, CSU, Colorado State, and so on). There is a HUGE void between schools like CCU and most RA and AACSB schools. Admission committees will surely know this as well.
Lastly, "progressive" employers most likely hire these grads for other reasons than were they got the degree or they just don't know the difference. One day they will.
The question was about CCU and not NA degree holders. CCU has a web site and it is really easy to verify its "Mickey mouse" status just by looking at the requirements and the course level. I cannot generalize about the other NA schools as each one is different.
Are there "progressive" employers that would hire CCU graduates? for sure, these are employers that only look at your achievements and experience and the CCU or no CCU degree would not really have impact on the hiring decision.
The question is how the CCU degree would be perceived outside the US, I think that the answer is simple, just tell your prospect employer that you earned your MBA by reading some books and completing a multiple choice open book examinations and that you boosted your GPA by retaking exams multiple times. I think that there is no need to get into a NA or RA debate or complex research to think what would be the employer's reaction.
An MBA is considered a serious degree in Canada that takes a considerable amount of effort and you would have a hard time convincing anyone that CCU is as good as any Canadian school.
If substandard schools as CCU were so successful in Canada, you would have
thousands of people getting those degrees given their record completion times, their "flexible" delivery format of multiple choice examinations at open books and their attractive tuition rates. However, I don't see lines of Canadians taking those programs.
There is nothing wrong by taking a CCU degree and there is no reason to blast people taking those programs. I just don't like people coming to the forum and claiming that these degrees are seen in pair with any other DL degree as the ones offered by Waterloo, Athabasca or UoT just to mention a few because there is no point of comparison.
As I've said above, each school is going to have their own criteria for admissions and hiring. I would like to see some proof or examples of people with NA degrees being turned away from Canadian grad schools or faculty jobs. Perhaps they exist - however...I'd still like to meet these people. Until then, one can only make assumptions or opinions.
I agree. Progressive employers take a number of things into account when considering potential applicants. However, employers are not progressive if they simply discard an applicant's resume because he or she has a CCU degree (or any other NA school for that matter).
Have you ever taken a course at CCU?
No assumptions here, I based my self on what I read on the website of CCU. Multiple choice open book examinations might be acceptable for undegrads at some extent but not at the graduate level. At the graduate level you are looking to educate at the critical analysis level and not just readings controls as the examination techniques presented by CCU.
What about the policy of allowing students to retake exams in oder to boost GPAs? Isn't this enough proof of grade inflation? Can we trust a high GPA granted by CCU?
DETC or no DETC, the school is question wouldn't be acceptable by any means by Canadian standards.
Why do you need "proof" of NA graduates being turned down? Obviously this happens, especially with the competitive nature of many of the programs from the schools you listed previously.
I wouldn’t discard an applicant due to their CCU degree, I would just adjust my expectations and look for other compensating factors.
Because I'm not prepared to accept someone's loose assumption about a particular school. The truth is...you don't have any examples or proof to even support your assertion. How do you know that a CCU grad has been turned away from a Canadian grad school or faculty position? If you have an example then please share it. Aside from the schools I've previously listed...please feel free to list any others that have turned away a CCU grad. Lastly, exhibiting bias towards a CCU applicant simply because of his or her chosen school is not an effective hiring practice.
There is no point on arguing about this. If you feel that CCU is a good option then I won't be able to change your mind.
There are many factors to take into consideration when choosing a degree, if all you can afford is CCU there is always the argument that degree is better than no degree. However, with the amount of Canadian DL options there is not much support to the idea to get a CCU degree to use in Canada.
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