Canyon College and the PhD(c)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by PsychPhD, Oct 13, 2006.

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  1. jtaee1920

    jtaee1920 New Member

    Re: Re: Re: Well, you have surprised me

    I'll bite...

    What powers and/or privileges can a PhD assume without the approval of others (licensing boards, school administrators, et al.)?
     
  2. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Winning the marathon

    Hmm, let's see ... wasn't this thread begun after someone came across faculty biographies claiming PhD(c)? Apparently some people are getting hired to teach (regardless of your opinion of the institution's reputation).

    Watch the news ... you'll see all sorts of people being interviewed as "experts" but often little attention is paid to verifying/validating their credentials. (And yes, I know this goes beyond just PhDs).

    And, yes, I also know, this is not a life-or-death matter. (Though Dr. Laura claiming a PhD in Physiology qualifies her as a therapist does stretch the envelope!)

    As one who has just completed a very long haul to legitmately earn a PhD, I do take this personally (perhaps a bit too much! :) )
    I have endured much to reach this point in my academic and professional career. It is insulting to me both that people would claim the same achievement when it hasn't been earned and those who dismiss my work by saying the whole issue doesn't matter.

    It has been said that graduate school is a marathon and not a sprint. Well, I think any marathon runner would be equally offended if someone took a taxi to the finish line or jumped in for the last 100 yards, crossed the finish line and insisted on being called the winner.
     
  3. jtaee1920

    jtaee1920 New Member

    Re: Winning the marathon

    None of the things you mentioned are powers or privileges someone can just take. A person cannot become a teacher without a school hiring them. Being an "expert" has nothing to do with a degree. Many experts have no formal education. Being an expert has more to do with experience than education.

    Graduate level education is a long, hard marathon. However, it is not a contest. There are no winners and losers.

    I really don't care about what education others many claim. I happen to work in a field (marketing) where education takes a far back seat to abilty. However, if I were to take up your crusade, I would be much more upset about people claiming degrees from mills over people claiming candidacy in a legitimate program.

    As a side note, Regis University graduate students acheive candidacy when they apply and are within six credits of degree completion.
     
  4. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Getting off the merry-go-round

    Yeah, yeah, and Lincoln never went to law school -- he was self taught. Why are there thousands of colleges and universities in the world if there is no value to education? And people are hired by agencies when they misrepresent their credentials. (Just do a Google search for articles about people claiming salary differentials based on bogus credentials, getting hired by fudging/falsifing education, etc.)
    You might want to review the data the Census Dept. is reporting about salary:
    • HS dropouts: $19,169
    • HS diploma: $28,645
    • College graduates: $51,554
    • Advanced college degrees: $78,093.
    (Source: CNN http://www.cnn.com/2006/EDUCATION/10/26/degree.value.ap/index.html)

    Certainly appears that more education "wins" one more money.

    Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for finally coming clean about your bias!

    "I really don't care about what education others many (sic) claim"
    Really?
    If you are so expererientally qualified, why did you bother earning a BS and a MBA?

    Ultimately, this boils down to: I value and encourage education and you don't.
    As there is nothing more to add beyond that, it's agree to disagree time.
     
  5. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Good points. Consider also that PsychPhD might be female and is starting to resemble a troll.

    Dave
     
  6. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Re: Re: Re: Well, you have surprised me

    I'm not convinced that it's very important that the general public understands the difference between a degreed PhD and a PhD candidate; rather, it is important that those who will actually use such information understand the difference. For example, department chairs, in hiring new professors, will need to understand the difference between a PhD candidate and a degreed PhD, and presumably they will, as they themselves have been through the grad school process and therefore certainly ought to. Students will also need to know the difference and the more advanced students (and even those undergrads who have read lots of catalogues from schools offering the doctorate) will understand the difference; those students who do not understand the distinction between can always ask Professor Friendly, who will likely explain that the PhD candidates have not yet completed that big hairy 300-page paper based on original research called a dissertation and the degreed PhDs have.
     
  7. jtaee1920

    jtaee1920 New Member

    Re: Getting off the merry-go-round

    Census Dept. data is nice but really didn't apply to me. I was earning more money than the amount listed for "Advanced college degrees" before I even completed my undergraduate degree.


    I think you and I both value education. It is putting a value on the piece of paper that hangs on the wall where we part ways. I wanted to continue my education but did not need to do so. I love learning. I wouldn't have gone through 2 years of grad school if I didn't. Most of my employees and co-workers don't even know I have an MBA. Not because I didn't enjoy the education. Just because they have never asked :)

    Ultimately, this boils down to: I have value outside of my education and you fell entitled because of yours.
     
  8. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    It seems to me that designating oneself as a PhD(c) is like proclaiming oneself to be almost pregnant.

    In my view, you are or you aren’t. Every school with a doctoral program publicly confers the PhD. Are there schools that confer candidacy status as an official designation?
     
  9. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Pregnancy can be measured at the nominal level of measurement (i.e., Yes or No), ordinal level of measurement (i.e., trimesters), interval level of measurement (i.e., 1 to 9 months), or ratio level of measurement (i.e., infant size via sonogram). It all depends on how you ask the question.

    If you really want answers to this question, why don't you conduct a poll here or someplace else?

    Dave
     
  10. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Ever not perjorative?

    Yes, we know, you are so far ahead of the curve than we mere educated mortals.

    I didn't "put a value on it" actuarials did.

    "... but just hate the learned."

    Entitled? To what? Some semblance of recognition of a fairly rare accomplishment (1% of the US population). Yeah, I think that isn't asking too much.

    Entitled to some respect befitting an expert in his discipline? Again, don't think that is unrealistic considering the years of education and practical experience I have accrued.

    Entitled to deference and fawning? Oh, no ... I think my experiences actually earning the degree and the warmth and respect I have been shown here have pretty much erased any expectation of that!
     
  11. jtaee1920

    jtaee1920 New Member

    I give up PsychPhD. Good luck :)
     
  12. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    So much for any respect for you!

    ARE YOU SERIOUS? Thanks, there is nothing I need to add to demonstrate your character.
     
  13. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    FINALLY!

    THANK YOU!
     
  14. jtaee1920

    jtaee1920 New Member

    Re: FINALLY!

    You're welcome :)
     
  15. jtaee1920

    jtaee1920 New Member

    I have a good amount of confidence PsychPhD is a female and I am absolutely certain she is a troll.
     
  16. PaulC

    PaulC Member

    Dave, I didn't ask a question. I am not seeking answers.

    There is nothing suggestively arcane about the view I presented. You have a PhD or you don't. You are pregnant or you are not. If one is measuring trimesters or fetus size, the question of whether one is pregnant or not has already been answered.

    It's just a simple analogy that helps to present my position. It doesn't require thay anyone else hold to the same.
     
  17. jtaee1920

    jtaee1920 New Member

    The answer to your questions is "yes". Here is a snip from Yale's School of Public Health website....

    "The normal requirement for the degree of Doctor of Philosophy (Ph.D.) is a minimum of four full years of graduate study. The first two years are primarily devoted to coursework. Each student must satisfactorily complete a minimum of ten term courses or the equivalent. Required courses cover the theory, principles and practice of their chosen area of specialty.

    All doctoral candidates must pass qualifying examinations and must design and submit a prospectus acceptable to the faculty advisory committee before being admitted to candidacy. The dissertation must make an original contribution to the field and be presented at an advertised open seminar. "
     
  18. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Yes, Virginia, there is a doctoral candidate

    To my knowledge virtually every program that confers a doctoral degree does recognize "candidate" status. it is the stage when the student has completed all required coursework and their oral/comprehensive exams. Some schools also require the successful acceptance of a dissertation proposal.

    This is why I was surprised when I was informed that my university did not recognize doctoral candidacy. The chair of my department, when he corrected the text of the informed consent form for my study where I identified myself as a "doctoral candidate," said he didn't really understand why the university chose not to abide by this academic convention, but that is what they did.
     
  19. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Re: So much for any respect for you!

    Hmm... Another emotional response to simple comment about your character, but you seem try to turn everything around. Perhaps this defintion will help:

    "In Internet terminology, a troll is a person who enters an established community such as an online discussion forum and intentionally tries to cause disruption, most often in the form of posting inflammatory, off-topic, or otherwise inappropriate messages"

    Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_troll

    Dave
     
  20. Dave Wagner

    Dave Wagner Active Member

    Hi. Your analogy is too simple to describe Ph.D. candidacy; that was my point.

    Dave
     
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