Canyon College and the PhD(c)

Discussion in 'General Distance Learning Discussions' started by PsychPhD, Oct 13, 2006.

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  1. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    As I'm sure many others have done, I have spent a fair amount of time surfing the web sites of various online programs.

    I recently came across Canyon College and was surprised by its posting of extensive faculty biographies. But, more curious was that several faculty had PhD(c) (or some derivation thereof) included as a degree after their name.

    It is supposed to mean "candidate" but I was always taught that while you can include an indication of a degree in progress on one's vita, it was not appropriate to include the degree listed after your name.

    Did I sleep through a change in protocol?
    Or is this a transparent attempt of a non RA program to make its faculty look more qualified than they are?
     
  2. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    First of all, Canyon College isn't simply "non-RA" or non-accredited, they are a flat-out degree mill. The inflation of staff credentials is probably done to entice one to "enroll" in their "school".

    Before I found this board, I was actually seriously considering one of their programs. Stay away.
     
  3. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    I had my suspicions

    But I was surprised when I actually got a response from one of the PhD(c)'s I wrote to directly.

    She indicated that it is the college itself that encourages faculty to list PhD(c), but she doesn't do this at South University or UoP.

    I have replied to her asking for some additional "inside" information.

    Let's see what she says!
     
  4. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Another response ...

    Heard from a different "instructor" with a much more predictable response. Amazing that I am hearing from anyone at all!

    You wrote:

    Dear Mr. Fish,

    A fellow doctoral student (with a dissertation defended) and several years teaching experience, I am curious why you have PhD(c) listed as one of your credentials?

    Surely you are aware that you cannot claim to have a degree you have not yet earned. It is permissable to include the fact that you are pursuing the degree on your vita, but as part of your list of degrees after your name is not appropriate.

    Tacking on a "c" to ostensibly indicate "candidate" is nonetheless misleading as most people are not that aware of the process of graduate school. I am confident you are aware of that.

    What I am most curious about is whether this was your doing or you were encouraged to do so by Canyon College, as I have seen several other members of their faculty do the same thing.

    Please do not permit the honor of earning an advanced degree to be diminished by continued misrepresentation of your qualifications. I did notice that you indicated enrollment in your doctoral program in 2000 so, if you have completed your degree, by all means update your vita.

    Thank you.

    A concerned student/instructor

    My Response: I'm not impressed with anything you've just written. If anybody has misrepresented their qualifications it's you, trying to pass yourself off as a concerned intellect when, in reality, you're not much more than a compulsive little imp. Don't get your shorts in a twist about anything concerning me, okay? When Canyon feels like changing my information, they'll change it. In the meantime, why don't you concern yourself more with teaching your students and less with sniffing your nose up your colleagues' behinds.
     
  5. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    Wow...that response tells you everything you need to know about the "hallowed halls" of academia at Canyon College!

    Translation: Oh crap, I've been busted. Go away and leave me alone!
     
  6. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    A surprisingly official response

    Who woulda thunk it?

    From Canyon College:
    The use of PhD(c) indicates that the person has completed
    all required course work except the final thesis. We do not
    try to use it to indicate that a person has just started a doctoral
    program. A professor that has a "(c)" has accomplished the
    classroom work at their university of study. If two professors
    both have master's degrees and one of the two has a PhD(c)
    it does indicate that this person has continued to study and
    has completed the required classroom work to earn his PhD.

    The University of Alberta, California State University, University of Alaska,
    Saint Louis University, The University of Texas, and the University of Iowa
    all use the PhD(c) with their web pages.

    I have had one professor request that the "(c)" be displayed with
    their credentials. In today's search it appears that two of the
    professors with the designation should now have the "(c)" dropped.

    Thank you for your concerns.

    Phil Braun, BSCS, MBA
    Assistant Director, Administrative Services
    Canyon College
    [email protected]
    US Tel: 208-455-0010
    US Fax: 208-455-0040
     
  7. planejane

    planejane New Member

    There's a response for you!

    It shows the mentality of the instructors as well.
     
  8. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    And then again ...

    Because I have WAY too much time on my hands post-dissertation, I actually did a Google search of PhD(c).

    Much to my chagrin, there are many instances of people using it to indicate "doctoral candidate." (Surprisingly, Canyon College bios weren't included in the search results.)

    What I found was that primarily doctoral candidates in nursing and a few other allied health professions seem to have adopted the practice ... and at some big name universities too.

    Guess things changed while I was in graduate school!
     
  9. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    This could shed some light on why they now use the (c). This is from a 2003 report from Idaho's Newschannel 7:

    "We looked into some Canyon College instructors, and ran into some
    problems when we tried to check out Shelagh Gray.

    Her online bio says she has a PH. D. from Walden University. When we
    called, they said she is enrolled, but is not scheduled to graduate
    until September of 2005.

    Gray did not return any of our phone calls or e-mails."

    Canyon College is not allowed to offer degrees to any students actually living in Idaho, which is where it is located.
     
  10. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Do I believe what I read?

    Dear ,

    I have heard from Professor Tanya M. I have had the "PsyD (c)" credential removed. I am sorry if this misrepresented her credentials to you. If you pull up her pages again - you may have to press the refresh button on your web browser on each page to display the updated page.

    Thank you for helping me see the importance of this.

    Phil Braun, BSCS, MBA
    Assistant Director, Administrative Services
    Canyon College
    [email protected]ncollege.edu
    US Tel: 208-455-0010
    US Fax: 208-455-0040



    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Phil Braun
    To: me
    Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 4:54 PM
    Subject: PhD(c) Coursework Completed


    Dear,

    The use of PhD(c) indicates that the person has completed
    all required course work except the final thesis. We do not
    try to use it to indicate that a person has just started a doctoral
    program. A professor that has a "(c)" has accomplished the
    classroom work at their university of study. If two professors
    both have master's degrees and one of the two has a PhD(c)
    it does indicate that this person has continued to study and
    has completed the required classroom work to earn his PhD.

    The University of Alberta, California State University, University of Alaska,
    Saint Louis University, The University of Texas, and the University of Iowa
    all use the PhD(c) with their web pages.

    I have had one professor request that the "(c)" be displayed with
    their credentials. In today's search it appears that two of the
    professors with the designation should now have the "(c)" dropped.

    Thank you for your concerns.

    Phil Braun, BSCS, MBA
    Assistant Director, Administrative Services
    Canyon College
    [email protected]
    US Tel: 208-455-0010
    US Fax: 208-455-0040


    ----- Original Message -----
    From: Canyon College Admissions
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: me
    To: [email protected]
    Sent: Friday, October 13, 2006 10:39 AM
    Subject: PhD(c)?


    Good morning,

    As a doctoral student (with a dissertation defended) and several years teaching experience, I came across Canyon College during my search seeking ways to expand my online teaching activities.

    However, reviewing your faculty biographies leaves me concerned. Why do several faculty have PhD(c) (or some derivation) listed as a credential?

    Surely you are aware that one cannot claim to have a degree not yet earned. While it is permissable to include the fact that the degree is beind sought on a vita, it should not be included as part of the list of degrees after one's name .

    Tacking on a "c" to ostensibly indicate "candidate" is nonetheless misleading as most people are not that aware of the process of graduate school. I am confident you are aware of that.

    What I am most curious about is whether this was the doing of the indivdual faculty members or encouraged by Canyon College. Given several faculty members have done this and it is not something I have seen at the many other colleges I have explored, I can only assume that this is a college sanctioned activity.

    Please do not permit the honor of earning an advanced degree to be diminished by continued misrepresentation of your faculty's qualifications.

    Thank you.

    A concerned learner/instructor
     
  11. TCord1964

    TCord1964 New Member

    I see "Professor" Fish still has the (c) next to his name on Canyon College's web site. He also teaches at a high school. I wonder how his colleagues would feel about his unprofessional response to a question about his qualifications?
     
  12. bullet

    bullet New Member

    Here Here

    In this country a student can request a certification of completion of studies...............in spanish it`s called

    CONDICION DE EGRESADO

    This is an actual academic status. No thesis has been defended but none the less it is a status.
     
  13. fortiterinre

    fortiterinre New Member

    Interesting. I suppose I am even more old-fashioned, because I am unfamiliar with the PhD (c) and thought it always had to be written out: PhD (cand.), and then could only be used when the person was actually in candidacy and finished with coursework, i.e., ABD ("all but dissertation" being the really cheeky way to phrase it).
     
  14. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    It's not about ABD, it's about misinformation

    Just to be clear, it has always been my understanding that one is free to provide any explanation as to education in progress (or uncompleted) on their resume/CV.

    My only issue was that names on Canyon College's faculty list were listed with degrees, including PhD(c).

    It has been made excruciatingly clear to me that I am not entitled to even insinuate that I had a PhD unless and until I had actually completed the requirements for that degree.

    One of the PhD(c) faculty -- a student in my own program -- was rather defensive about her status, even though she was not even ABD.

    A major factor in my concern was that our program is a RA distance program and we do not need to give anyone another reason to criticize distance learning by claiming academic credentials not yet earned.
     
  15. simon

    simon New Member

    Re: It's not about ABD, it's about misinformation


    Quite frankly I do not understand the level of intensity of your concern regarding this specific faculty using a "c" status? In fact it is inconsequential due to the fact that the school in question is unaccredited and obviously not RA! In fact it will absolutely have no negative impact on any RA distance learning program regardless of whether the faculty uses a "c" or not.

    However, what will "give anyone another reason to criticize distance learning" is if we focus on such insignificant issues rather than on substantive issues that project a positive image on distance education.
     
  16. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Are you familiar with ethics at all?

    Simon,

    Having seen the nature of your "debate" on this and the Capella lawsuit thread, I have no interest in engaging you in your circular arguments.

    If you are so committed to this amorphous concept of everyone getting along and no one ever being critical of another, there is no point in attempting to illustrate a context of ethical behavior and integrity.

    Regardless of whether Canyon is RA or not is immaterial. EVERY person who joins in this questionable behavior reflects poorly on themselves and their own educational programs. Such behavior dminishes the integrity of the PhD and the reputation of the involved doctoral program as people very easily can presume it is the responsibility of the doctoral programs to actually teach their student how to behave ethically. Acquiring advanced education shouldn't just be something you take but you should also accept the responsibility to actually use your expanded knowledge.

    If you have really read the discussions on these forums, it should be apparent that not everyone is familiar with the differences between national, professional, regional, and vanity accreditation. Not everyone knows how a PhD is earned. A reason why people embellish their credentials is to mislead others. It is the behavior that is unacceptable, not the venue.

    But, I can see how someone who values style over substance might miss that distinction.
     
  17. simon

    simon New Member

    Re: Are you familiar with ethics at all?

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2006
  18. PsychPhD

    PsychPhD New Member

    Done with you

    Not, any more. I was attempting to point out the pervasive flaws in your logic, but you have made it abundantly clear you are more interested in perpetuating your illogic.

    Your behavior clearly shows otherwise. Again, you ignore the substance of the discussion thread to rant about your perceived injustices. I posted this thread to ask a question about PhD(c), to see if my understanding about its use was correct.

    Actually, Simon, you are the only person who seems so offended. The only reason I have engaged your diatribe is to respond to your ad hominem attacks. But, I am done ... you have made your intent and illogic abundantly clear.

    Because, again, you did not read the original posting. My concern has little to do with Canyon and on what engaging in this behavior does to the institution where the faculty member studied

    I take my leave of you, to let your own words and presentation speak for themselves.
     
  19. simon

    simon New Member

    Re: Done with you

     
  20. Ted Heiks

    Ted Heiks Moderator and Distinguished Senior Member Staff Member

    Can someone tell me what exactly is so unethical about listing onesself as a PhD candidate?
     
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