calsouthern psyd

I saw an ad once for a practicing dentist who similarly listed "MD, DMD (not licensed to practice Medicine in the State of Texas)"

I was like huh? Could not make it as an MD, hated being an MD, earned the MD off-shore? It was the first and last I ever saw such a thing. Very curious.

 

The MD/DMD combo isn't uncommon. It's actually the required education for a maxillofacial surgeon. Displaying an MD when you're not licensed as a physician? That's a pretty good way to get slapped by regulators. Outside of research (i.e. publishing an article) or academia (i.e. the door to your office at the university says "John Smith, MD") there really is no legitimate reason to publicly market yourself as an MD if you don't have a medical license.

You only need a license to practice psychology if you are a clinical psychologist (some states loop some other things into the license as well). So, if you are hanging out a shingle and offering therapy, psychoanalysis (not licensed in some states and can be offered by anyone), psychotherapy or counseling, you need a license. Oh, you're a PsyD who specialized in Industrial and Organizational Psychology? No license necessary. Feel free to farm yourself out to companies giving seminars on how the wall color will make your drones more compliant because no one is even close to attempting to regulate you.

So, it's a huge difference.

I'm a PsyD/PhD without a license? Why? Because I focus on an area that is unregulated. Or, perhaps, what I'm licensed to do and what my education indicates are completely separate.

That distinction doesn't really exist for Physicians. You go to Medical School to become a physician. It's the natural pathway. Sure, some veer off into research, but MD is not a research degree. Likewise, while the PsyD has traditionally been a clinical degree it isn't necessarily the case any more. There are numerous non-clinical PsyD programs. And the states seem perfectly content with a social worker with a PhD acknowledging themselves as such trying to hold a PsyD to a different standard is oddly misguided.

Here's some food for thought: Many psychologists (specifically "associate psychologists") employed by the NYS Department of Health are non-licensed and yet, deal with patients directly. They operate under the supervision of a licensed psychologist. But still, their title? Associate Psychologist.

So, let's think about this for a minute.

It's unethical for say, an LMFT with a PsyD to 1) practice fully in compliance with the provisions of their license and 2) display a degree they legitimately earned. But it is not only legal, but actually state sanctioned, for an unlicensed (that is, no license in any area) PhD/PsyD to use the title of "Associate Psychologist" AND their degree while functioning as an "advanced clinician."

If we're talking about wrongly misleading people wouldn't you assume that an "Associate Psychologist" with the Office of Mental Health (who, again, is dealing in direct patient care) would, I don't know, be a licensed psychologist?

 

This ad was in one of those local "newspapers" (mostly an Ad flyer) looking for new patients. He was running a special with free x-rays or something.

 

I do not agree that psychology is a "advanced" license. I know plenty of clinical social workers that have PhD's and advertise as so. They have every right. In fact, the Indiana code states in order to be licensed as a clinical social work one must have a doctoral degree in social work or a master's degree from a CSWE accredited program. Most patients don't know the difference between all of this. And to be sure, all one has to do is explain to the patient on the first visit that they have a doctorate in clinical psychology and are licensed in clinical social work. Patients don't care. I get patients asking me for meds all the time yet I have never lead someone to believe I am a physician. There is a school in California that offers Doctor of Psychoanalysis and guess what the abbreviation is...Psy.D. You may think it is mislead but the states don't agree with you. I was told that I need to be sure I list myself as John Doe, Psy.D, LCSW. As long as my license is listed, I am covered. We can't be responsible for what people may assume as they assume all sorts of things. My paperwork and intake process clears up any confusion and I have yet to meet a single patient that was "misinformed" and thought they we seeing a psychologist instead of an LCSW. All they care about is that I can help them and I am qualified to do so.

 

i am sorry but if one earns the degree, they have a right to list it. State boards have to problem with this.

 

In some cases, it is illegal to list it. In others, unethical. In others still, just fine. It depends.

 

As I mentioned on another thread, what I have seen is that in general you can list a doctorate and call yourself "Dr." if the degree is accredited and is in counseling or a counseling related field. So, a Ph.D, Ed.D. or D.Min in Counseling, Pastoral Counseling, Counseling Psych would be fine. A Ph.D. in English or a D.Min in Expository Homiletics, not so fine (unethical and potentially illegal).

I think the heartburn with the PsyD is the appearance and assumption that you are a Psychologist.

 

Same with using a PhD, even if it is in psychology (and not accompanied by a license).

 

I'd have to disagree. I feel like the PsyD is a practicing degree i.e the whole point of it is to prepare one to become a psychologist so somebody advertising a PsyD MAY have more of an implication that they are a psychologist. A PhD on the other hand can come from a plethora of different places under the umbrella of psychology, social sciences etc. Plus there are many PhD in in disciples of psychology outside of counseling/clinical. I feel like somebody with a PhD in social work, social psychology, marriage and family therapy, developmental psychology etc. etc. would be less misleading to put their PhD after their lcsw/lcpc/mft as a PhD does not imply psychologist the same way PsyD does...at least in my humble opinion.

 

You may feel that having a PsyD and not being licensed as a psychologist is misleading but I disagree. Apparently state boards also disagree with you as well. PsyD means doctor of psychology not licensed psychologist. I know people who have an MSW but are not licensed. Are you saying they shouldn't use their MSW because people will assume they are a licensed clinical social worker. This is why Indiana REQUIRES all mental health professionals to list their license along with their degree. So a licensed psychologist would be PsyD, HSPP or PhD, HSPP. Clinical Social Worker, MSW, LCSW or PhD, LCSW, or PsyD, LCSW. The PsyD merely indicates I have advanced training beyond the msw. It doesn't mean I am a psychologist unless I use HSPP. It is only misleading if someone believes one is a psychologist and the clinician does not correct them. As I have said elsewhere, I go to great lengths to help patients understand what my title is, what I can do for them and what I cannot do for them. There can be no deception if one is honest with the patient up front. So, again, I don't see how this is misleading. Maybe if you share a scenario where harm would result, I may take this more seriously. Some patients think I can rx medication even though I explain I am a clinical social worker. Have I mislead them into thinking this? No. You are assuming someone is going to need a psychologist for something and LCSW can't do (which the only thing I can think of is testing, at least in my state) and they are going to come to someone that is a PsyD, LCSW and expect that service the LCSW cannot provide. However, not all psychologists do testing and even the ones that do don't do testing for everything. This is why we talk on the phone with clients before scheduling an appointment - to get a sense of what they are seeking.

 

This comes directly from the Indiana Board of Psychology: David:

I am including the response from a board member on this. I hope this clarifies the issue for you.

Well, of course he/she can put the degree after the name – the person earned the degree. However, this person must be very clear in referring to him/herself as a social worker, NOT a psychologist. He/she can say that he/she has a doctoral degree in psychology, too, but is practicing as a social worker, not a psychologist.

 

Why wouldn't you get licensed as a Clinical Psychologist after doing all the work for the degree? Just curious.

 

My state doesn't recognize online programs.

 

Where I live the rules say this,

"A "Program in psychology" shall mean a psychology program that:

(1) is designated as a doctoral program in psychology by the Association of State and Provincial Psychology Boards or the National Register of Health Service Psychologists or is accredited by the Commission on Accreditation (CoA) of the American Psychological Association, at the time the degree is granted or within three years thereafter; and . . ."

but it doesn't say anything about online programs.

 

It is different everywhere and sometimes you need to contact the board to verify. Mine doesn't say anything about online programs but when I contacted the board, I was informed it was unlikely an online program would be adequate for licensure. Plus, you need an APA accredited internship and if the program isn't APA approved, it will be nearly impossible to get an APA internship. I imagine this will change in the future as online education will only continue to spread and replace onsite programs or at the very least components of onsite programs.

 

Let us know about the Calsouthern PsyD program and how you enjoy it. I am tempted myself. Looks interesting and the cost is terrific. I would only do it to become licensed so in the end I am not sure about the time and cost investment. You probably got in at a good time as I suspect tuition will rise.